London Anti-Austerity Protest Turns Nasty

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Peaceful is boring, there is no story with a peaceful protest, it would be all of one sentence.

"Today in London there was a peaceful protest, nothing else happened."

That is boring, people want drama.

"Today in London violence broke out in the streets."

Good for you. I'm not talking about you (if this is your opinion) or all those with business interests first.

People are selfish, they prioritise different things because different things hold different values for different people.

I didn't WANT to hear that there are activists damaging the WW2 memorial as has been shared by others -government pro or not, but both alike. This LIBERTY is what the country claimed to have stood for in '45 and should do so today too.
This is why both I and they, whichever side, both want to BE ABLE TO FULLY HEAR that it happened regardless of whether or not it suits our feelings on the matter or not; this is called Fairness, Liberalism, Justice, whatever the **** you want to call it - the idea is important for keeping things civil.

Please, if you have any respect for the people who stand for liberty and justified reasoning - don't pull another corporate bull**** justification..

Let's me be more symbolic and preachy like the media.

You're only spitting on the graves of the very people the government claimed to represent back then - that's where the problem is at, and that is why the media and the government should be rightly scrutinised.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 121

username917703

Original post by Hal.E.Lujah

In all fairness, North East and North West also resulted in strong labour majority. And rightly so, as it's clear the cuts are due from them.

You can pretty much correctly map the election results against the spend cuts /increases.

Birmingham as well.

Reply 122

Rakas21

Original post by LordGaben

They must have been fuming in 2005 when Labour secured 355 seats with 35.2% of the popular vote and in a election with a lower turnout than this one. Oh wait.....

Exactly what i was going to say.

Just a bunch of lefties with too much free time.

Reply 123

Observatory

Original post by Roving Fish

It is absolutely horrendous that someone has defaced a war memorial.

Several armchair activists and protestors are making the point of saying the government isn't a majority because only 39% of people voted for them. I'd question whether AV/PR needs to be brought up in a separate debate.

Any PR/AV vote, unlikely, would seriously shake up the HoC - I'd argue that it would head to an assembly kind of circle layout which would have to be in a new building altogether.

I don't see any credible argument here when this very government and Prime Minister introduced a referendum on AV that was decisively rejected. The people have had their say on the electoral system and they like it how it is. Moreover Labour campaigned against AV because they expected to be able to form a majority government this year under FPTP. What we are hearing now are purely self-interested arguments and, as others have pointed out, not even effective ones as under PR the most likely outcome would be a Tory-UKIP coalition: surely even worse in the eyes of people like the SWP.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 124

viddy9

Original post by a96clark

Why are there no economists, doctors, etc. and all of these people who are experts in the affected areas out in the riots? Maybe the changes will actually be good? Anyone thought about that?

The economists aren't exactly going to be personally affected by austerity. They just agree that austerity is unnecessary and bad for the economy.

As for doctors, they've made their stance pretty clear: more than 140 top doctors signed a letter stating that the Conservatives have harmed the NHS, and the Health and Social Care Act 2012 was universally condemned by medical professionals and organisations, including the King's Fund and the British Medical Association.

And, doctors have taken part in anti-austerity marches before. See here and here, for instance.

The Tories have no intellectual firepower: they simply have control of the majority of the media who faithfully parrot out any lies that they spout.

Reply 125

LordGaben

Original post by Rakas21

Exactly what i was going to say.

Just a bunch of lefties with too much free time.

The protestor that defaced the war memorial needs to be found and made to wipe it clean on national tv and then receive a sentence of at least 3 years

Reply 126

viddy9

A small minority of the protestors turned violent, according to the police. Of course, the rightwing press will focus on this, rather than the fact that David Cameron's claim to be leading a "one nation" government is already falling apart on just the second day. (And, many people on here appear to be focusing disproportionately on the violence of a minority of the protestors. Rupert Murdoch would be proud to be influencing such a docile group of students.)

We should all be protesting against these harsh, immoral and unnecessary (as the majority of economists acknowledge) austerity measures, which punish those who had nothing to do with the global financial crisis and allow those who were responsible to continue to accumulate more wealth.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 127

Tronick

It angers me that half the country seem to think we don't have the biggest deficit in the EU and can just go on spending money we don't have in the name of "compassion". Look at how compassionate the austerity we imposed on Greece was and then tell me we shouldn't make cuts.

Reply 128

Observatory

Original post by Hal.E.Lujah

Seems legit. Incidentally another indicator of where the votes went might be the education levels across the country; http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/interactive/2011/aug/02/sats-ks2-results-mapped

If I'm reading this right, where 1st is lowest and 4th is highest, the Tory countryside is mostly in the 2nd level, the Tory suburbs mostly in the 3rd level, while the Labour-voting inner cities are mostly in the 1st (lowest) level. I don't see any 4th (highest) level areas at a first glance.

Apart from East Anglia and the Isle of Wight all the politically deepest Red areas have the lowest KS2 scores.

Reply 129

felamaslen

Original post by Mushto

I think we should go compulsory voting like in Australia, those who really don't want to vote for anyone would spoil their ballot and those who think it just doesn't count would probably still vote for who they really wanted

What would be the point in this?

Reply 130

a96clark

Original post by viddy9

Good. The Conservatives' plans are a moral disgrace, not to mention economically illiterate. We should all be protesting against their unnecessary and brutal austerity measures, designed to punish those who had nothing to do with the financial crisis.

The economists aren't exactly going to be personally affected by austerity. They just agree that austerity is unnecessary and bad for the economy.

As for doctors, they've made their stance pretty clear: more than 140 top doctors signed a letter stating that the Conservatives have harmed the NHS, and the Health and Social Care Act 2012 was universally condemned by medical professionals and organisations, including the King's Fund and the British Medical Association.

And, doctors have taken part in anti-austerity marches before. See here and here, for instance.

The Tories have no intellectual firepower: they simply have control of the majority of the media who faithfully parrot out any lies that they spout.

If it's that damaging, why is it only people who know little about things that complain? If the majority of economists said austerity was bad, if listen. If the majority of doctors said that the NHS was getting worse, I'd listen. But they dont, and the majority of the opposition to these policies come from people who read an article once and think they're now experts.

In reality, most economists have agreed with the Conservatives' policies, so I'm inclined to support them

Reply 131

limetang

Original post by balanced

wait is this a sharia protest against democracy or just angry voters? if so I do sympathise with them, although you must realise that no one would have voted a left-wing government as it would only add up to 35%(snp+lab). If it was properly elected by the people the only option would have been ukip+con at 50%

UKIP and the Conservatives would have got 49.5% of the vote. It is conceivable that in a PR system they would have been able to form a working majority with the DUP of just over 50%, and obviously this all depends upon which PR system you end up using as to whether the combined UKIP and CON vote would have been bellow 50% of seats or above.

But it at least seems clear to me that you have significantly more unity between your politically conservative parties than you do with your left and centre left parties. For example an SNP and Labour government would be significantly more divided than a UKIP and Conservative one, as far as I can see.

Now, of course you can protest the system that you're using to elect your governments, but to my mind that doesn't seem to be what is going on here. Instead we seem to have people protesting the fact that we have a tory government in power, and are using voting reform as a smokescreen of legitimacy. Could you imagine these people protesting against an equally illegitimate Labour government had it been able to form a government with an identical majority, I can't see that happening =P .

No, these protestors are absolute scum and I have utter contempt for them and what they actually stand for. I didn't vote conservative in this election, I'm not sure it's really the government I wanted but it's the government that HAS been elected.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 132

viddy9

Original post by a96clark

Then you clearly haven't been looking very hard. Two-thirds of economists have said that the Conservatives' austerity policies have harmed the economy and were unnecessary. Paul Krugman, who won the Nobel Prize in Economics, has been telling us for years that austerity has been unnecessary and based on a lie. Only economists trained in the neoliberal, free-market, Chicago School ideology agree with the Conservatives' policies; bear in mind that these are the same people who endorsed the deregulation of the financial sector which caused the global financial crisis and, incidentally, the Wall Street Crash almost a century ago.

Moreover, the Conservatives' top-down reorganisation of the NHS, implemented through the Health and Social Care Act 2012, was universally condemned by medical professionals and organisations, including the British Medical Association and the King's Fund. As Dr. Mark Porter, head of the BMA said, the changes were "opposed by patients, the public and NHS staff, but politicians pushed through the changes regardless".

He added: "This report highlights the damage that has been done to the health service and the major shortcomings of the Act, which distracted attention from rising pressure on services and cost billions to introduce.

"The damage done to the NHS has been profound and intense, but what is needed now is an honest and frank debate over how we can put right what has gone wrong without the need for another unnecessary and costly top-down reorganisation."

More than 140 top doctors, just a couple of months ago, signed a letter stating that the Conservatives have severely harmed the NHS and left it in its weakest position ever. Last winter, official data demonstrates that the Conservatives presided over the worst week for A&E waiting times in British history.

And, as I've demonstrated in my earlier posts, medical professionals are complaining and protesting. The question is, will you, and others, listen?

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 133

BubblyBumblebee

Original post by jameswhughes

Right, so these people would still be making the same fuss if Labour had got in in the same way? Like in 2005? I don't think so. I'm sure they wouldn't be happy with a Conservative-UKIP coalition that would represent half of those who voted.

UKIP also want to see a change to the voting system, but their supporters aren't the students/vagrants/communists who were in London yesterday.

There was a protest in 1997 when Labour did get into power which is similar to what's occuring now. They probably wouldn't be happy with a conservative-UKIP coalition but it is more an issue with the voting system than the parties themselves.

Reply 134

Bill_Gates

Original post by Hal.E.Lujah

It's a weird situation to be honest. In London, there was clearly a Labour Majority.

So pretty much everyone you talk to in London voted Labour and supported Labour. Yet as the rest of the country got Conservative MPs in power, it's a Conservative government. I'm sure this isn't just something you find in London, I can imagine a few places around the country where MPs have been elected for different parties (Thinking definitely of Brighton) and they're left feeling suddenly pointless.

It won't achieve much to protest but there's clear reason for the discontent.

Thought London is suppose to be prosperous?!

As i have been saying for years. London is full of renters (way above the national average) barely scrapping by and playing a mad game of follow the Joneses whilst consumer debt increases to record highs!

Reply 135

mojojojo101

Original post by Tronick

The EU and IMF have imposed austerity on Greece with an iron fist and the country is still a mess and frankly isn't getting any better.

How Greece is an advert for more cuts I have no idea

Reply 136

SBKA

Original post by TurboCretin

You're presumably aware that there are pressure points behind the bottom of the ear and at the base of the thumb that the police are targeting there. Force applies to those areas would be pretty damn painful.

As a previous comment stated, I do not know the story behind the picture.

If the guy was just a peaceful protestor, then any sort of physical contact from the police is wrong.

Reply 137

username987675

Original post by jamestg

To the lefties saying that the 37% is not a majority - why weren't you complaining about 2005's result? Hypocrites.

2005 - LABOUR MAJORITY - 35% - 355 seats
2015 - CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY - 37% - 331 seats

Original post by DiddyDec

Democracy when it suits them, protesting when it doesn't. They are acting like ****ing children throwing their toys out the pram because they didn't get what they want.

Being violent and vandalising stuff is wrong, I agree, but there is nothing wrong with protesting. It isn't democracy when 12% of votes = 1 seat, and triple that equals over half the available seats. If no one protested, then we wouldn't be heard because I honestly don't think conservatives or Labour care about how unfair FPTP is.

Democracy isn't something for 1 day in every 5 years, it's something that should be every day. Those protesters aren't just protesting because it's a conservative government, they are doing it because they don't want their vote to be ignored. When about 3 million voted for anti austerity parties, and the rest of the votes that weren't Tory votes wanted less severe cuts, it is no wonder that there are protests - people don't want to be ignored.

Don't get me wrong, I'm disgusted by the manor some of the protesters acted, taking it out of the police who have nothing to do with the situation is incredibly wrong. I just hate this mentality that they are protesting over something democracy has brought them. FPTP isn't the most democratic system to start with, and if anything they are trying to make the government be more democratic and listen to them more than just during the election period.

Reply 138

LordGaben

Original post by k4l397

That's wrong too, wouldn't have had an issue with Tory voters protesting then if that was the case. The thing is, Tory's like the Labour party, realise FPTP benefits them both more than PR would.

If we all sat quietly and let the two so called "main" parties get on with it there never would be change. It's not just lefties either as you put it, remember 12% of the British public voted UKIP, yet they only obtained 1 seat. As much as I dislike UKIP, they should be much better represented in parliament, our current system is quite frankly shameful.

Being violent and vandalising stuff is wrong, I agree, but there is nothing wrong with protesting. It isn't democracy when 12% of votes = 1 seat, and triple that equals over half the available seats. If no one protested, then we wouldn't be heard because I honestly don't think conservatives or Labour care about how unfair FPTP is.

Democracy isn't something for 1 day in every 5 years, it's something that should be every day. Those protesters aren't just protesting because it's a conservative government, they are doing it because they don't want their vote to be ignored. When about 3 million voted for anti austerity parties, and the rest of the votes that weren't Tory votes wanted less severe cuts, it is no wonder that there are protests - people don't want to be ignored.

Don't get me wrong, I'm disgusted by the manor some of the protesters acted, taking it out of the police who have nothing to do with the situation is incredibly wrong. I just hate this mentality that they are protesting over something democracy has brought them. FPTP isn't the most democratic system to start with, and if anything they are trying to make the government be more democratic and listen to them more than just during the election period.

I swear there was a referendum on this in 2011. Also 11,300,000 people voted tories and 3,800,000 people voted UKIP that were in favour of heavy cuts in other areas such as foreign aid and would have supported most tory cuts on a case by case basis.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 139

Tronick

Original post by mojojojo101

The EU and IMF have imposed austerity on Greece with an iron fist and the country is still a mess and frankly isn't getting any better.

How Greece is an advert for more cuts I have no idea

Actually Greece nearly eliminated their deficit and their decline in GDP was slowing down significantly. Sadly this has been put at risk by their new left wing prime minister. If you cut early then the cuts can be less harsh. Sadly (as usual) labour failed to balance the books so now it's left to Cameron and Osborne to be the bad guy who fixes all their mistakes. The Keynesian theory of recovery from a depression is logical but risky, because if it doesn't work you're faced with crippling debt like that suffered by Greece. The thing about the common sense approach adopted by the Tories is that no matter which way you look at it, the less public money spent on national debt the better.