Why I hate "feminism"- as a woman.

Understandable vs acceptable isn't exactly a big red line between the two given your examples. I mean I can understand rapists... I can understand why people do all sorts of unpleasant things. So understandable doesn't really mean anything - lots of horrible things in life can be understood but that doesn't make them acceptable. I'm asking you whether you think they're acceptable or not because your examples are sufficiently ambiguous on that that I've no idea if you think they are deplorable or normal, and 'understandable' doesn't really make any judgements about anything whatsoever. So I asked! I'm using the word to get you to declare yourself more clearly.

For instance in your examples I think that the man with the tuxedo and the kid shouldn't have to change their behaviour. I accept that people can be cautious blah blah and bad things can happen, but this is talking on a level of what is/isn't okay in society (which is what feminism is about as it's a sociopolitical view). Theft, assault and kidnapping are all wrong. People in society know it, and whether they then go on to do it or not nobody can control as we've all got free will, but at least we're all agreed they're wrong.

Similarly with how women (and men, to be fair) get treated by the opposite gender. The difference is that in society it's not generally accepted that these things are wrong, and that's the issue. Not so much the secondary issue of whether we can then guarantee everybody will always behave like that. Just the 'society does not approve' label.

god help us all.

why not?

Bet I'm going to get a lot of viewers with that provocative title
Disclaimer No.1: Ladies, please hold your estrogen/prolactin hormones to a normal level until you finish reading my thread. Gents, please also hold your testosterone to a normal level until you finish reading my thread. Thank you
Disclaimer No.2: This post is meant to challenge feminism- the ideology, and the movements (or mini-ideologies) within it. I am not against feminism as a whole in the same way as I am not in favour of it. I also encourage you to challenge my arguments, come up with your own in favour/against Feminism in order to make this post a debate and not a bitching arena.
Disclaimer No. 3: For those of you thinking that I have too much time on my hands to write this, I'm letting you know that debating over any ideology is part of my degree- so I'm actually being productive now xD

I decided to write this just after coming from a seminar on "Feminism", and will start by saying that I don't hate "feminism" because of what it implies, I hate it because even after reading from so many books about this ideology, I am still not sure if I am a "feminist" or not (*)

I also hate "feminism" because to the average person -regardless whether man or woman- not studying politics/IR/other social study or not reading about the ideology, feminism is still perceived as only being radical feminism.I met women that claimed that they wanted equality (which is what mostly liberal feminism is concerned with) but they didn't want feminism because they thought that all feminists are angry men-hating women, which is not by any means true.


I also hate "feminism" because it just feels like all the ideologies this world currently has are compressed and divided from a single gendered perspective.

1)You have liberal feminists: their proponents claim that the single and most important goal for women's liberation is sexual equality or gender justice

2)You have socialist-marxist feminism: their proponents mostly attack the existing divisions of labour in society that made women primarily responsible for domestic duties. Just like Socialists-Marxists, they're also seeking the need for a revolution to overthrow capitalism, but also to overcome male dominance.

3)You have radical-feminism (my personal least-favourite one):
These people (mostly women) are virtually nuts.
a) A lady called Shulamith Firestone claims that male power and control over women's biology can only be abolished by relieving women of their reproductive role.She's basically suggesting that us women shouldn't be mommas and that we should make babies in a tube. No thanks, I'm personally looking forward to feel some kicks in my tummy in the next decade or so.
b) A lady called Mary Daly, who's really into ladies (if you know what I mean )claims that women should create a culture separate from men. She, just like other radical feminists criticises liberal feminism for never questioning whether masculine and/or feminine traits are worth keeping.

There are many other types of "feminism" but I won't go into them as this is not the point of my thread.

(*) coming back to the idea I underlined earlier. I am still having a hard time deciding if I am a "feminist" or not, because of these disparaties I just mentioned. Every type of feminist movement is only concerned with one apparent problem. I can't consider myself any of them, because some are endorsing a number of ideas to which I agree, but they may be overlooking some that I also consider to be a problem. Some might have some ideas to which I agree, but they also have some ideas to which I am highly against. So, until I'll make up my mind whether I am or not a "feminist" per se, I will keep anything related to the word/ideology "feminism" in quotation marks (because I am still questioning and challenging the ideology).

I'll now ennumerate the problems I see with "feminism" so far, and I will engulf all waves and movements in this summation:

So far all movements of "feminism" that I reviewed raise the issue of inequality between the sexes. However, "feminists" such as radicals for instance, raise discrimination from men as an issue but at the same time discriminate other women. They're accusing women working in modelling or in the porn industry for doing what they are doing, but in reality it's their choice, and they are getting paid for what they're doing. They are shoving "objectification" as an issue whenever they're looking at magazines such as FHM, PlayBoy, Sports Illustrated, etc., but men are also at risk to have lower self esteem whenever they're looking at magazines with buff gym guys (most of whom take steroids and take other unorthodox methods to achieve that look). Does that mean women are more sensible to these adverts, hence should be pitied more and that men can deal with it because they've got an extra load of meat in their crotch? Sorry, but that's bs.

This issue over the "ideal look" projected by the media and other companies is an issue for both sexes, therefore I don't see this as a legit pretext to be used by some feminists. Anorexia/plastic surgery resulting from what some girls see in the media is an equally severe problem to the one some men are having when they're injecting steroids into their bodies, as a result of what they're also seeing in the media.

I also hate the idea of work quotas. In some parts of the world there is a certain number of positions allocated for women only, that companies must have. I see this as a response to "gender discrimination" by gender discrimination. I am sorry to say this, ladies, but we are not physically constructed by mother nature to fulfil some tasks. However, that doesn't mean that women shouldn't have access to all types of jobs, god forbid, but I believe that both men and women should first be tested for their skills and then be employed. Probation periods are a good example. If an applicant of either gender proves not to be fit for the job, that's the result of their capabilities. Women can work in the army, women can work in construction, women can do jobs that also men can do, but not all. This goes vice-versa.
Of course there is still gender discrimination going on in the working environment, and of course some women are being paid less than some men for the same job, but men are not the only ones to blame for this. Gender inequality is a socially constructed concept and I think that the best way to respond to this is to not see a human being in terms of gender, at least when it comes to the work environment. When an employer looks at a prospective employee, he/she should see only the employee and what he/she must to for the job and not a man employee or a woman employee. If I was an employer and I had my company I would put a big sign in front of my office saying "I don't see gender in my employees; if you prove yourself fit for the job, you'll get it, and your pay is based on what you are assigned to do" (I would also add a small disclaimer saying "if you don't get accepted and you're shoving patriarchy/racism/atheism/homophobia in my face for that, gtfo).

The lecturer I had for Feminism (who was a man) showed us some statistics with how many women are employed in some jobs, but a colleague of mine (who was a girl) asked a very good question- does that statistic show how many women actually applied for the jobs?

Both men and women are discriminating women when it comes to gender inequality, because people from both sides have "absorbed" this concept in their day to day lives, either consciously or unconsciously. Men are supposedly treating/ regarding women as "a piece of meat", but some women often use the phrase "Am I (or is she) just a piece of meat to you?" to their partners/ other men. As a woman, you are basically using this argument against you and your own gender, whether you're acknowledging or not. Same goes for some blacks, whenever one says "Oh, you think that's (=usually a bad thing) because I am black?". Sorry, but to me you are directly implying that blacks are bad, simply by saying that. This example can be merged to many other situations, but my post is long so please forgive my apparent bias- tis unintentional.



I was recently provoked by what appeared to be a radical feminist after she heard I was wearing a corset whenever I'm sitting at my desk/sleeping. She blamed me for "torturing myself" to achieve some ideal female standards that she was blabbering about. Of course that corset offers me an hourglass figure (with which I was in fact born- thanks momma) but my main use of the corset is to redress my position, because I have some pretty bad scoliosis. Of course, I would also sound like a hypocrite to say that that's the only reason why I'm wearing one. I decided to buy a corset for that health reason, but I'm also enjoying the fact that it keeps (and mildly accentuates) my hourglass figure. Our bodies are a living canvas, and we're biologically constructed to have a certain shape, colour, and height. Being happy with/taking advantage of mother nature gave us is not a bad thing- of course exceptions apply, but each of us have our own standards of what is decent/indecent. For instance, I saw myself disliking some girls that were wearing shorts shorter than my boxers, but at the same time I was wearing a V neck top that was mildly accentuating my cleavage. "Decency" is another heated debate topic - among both sexes- and my post is already getting pretty damn long so I will only use this concept to challenge another "feminist" argument sexism. Although I already challenged this argument in what I said earlier, I will address some other examples of things considered to be sexist:

One time I was talking on the phone with my ex and at some point (after teasing him) he said "shut up and go to the kictchen where you belong". I laughed so hard because I was actually in the kitchen stirring in my porridge. Personally, as a woman, I don't feel offended by this. I feel that I "belong in the kitchen" because I like cooking, but so does dad- he's a chef (that's why when he teases me I also ask him to go to the kitchen and make mum and me dinner xD)

If she slept with more guys she's a slag, if he slept with more girls he's a legend.
(Then there's the Taylor Swift saga of songs in which she's bitching about all her exes for being players.)

In my view, the expression above doesn't make either side more appealing to me. I personally wouldn't sleep with "a legend/player" etc. However, the fact that I'm into guys looking for a stable/committed relationship doesn't make me any more of a saint than a girl who's into having casual sex. It's a matter of preference. The idea is that we both know (or should know) what to expect when we're approaching some guys, in the same way that guys know (or should know) what to expect when they're approaching some girls.

I was once at the beach playing volleyball with some friends and I hugged a guy from my team for saving the ball when I missed it. When I hugged him he got a boner and my gal friend snapped at him saying "she's taken, you jerk". Including the fact that that guys can get boners in plenty other embarrasing/not embarrasing situations, feeling aroused or attracted when you're seeing a girl showing more of her body is not your fault. That's your body's signal of saying that it wants some special time ( ), whether you listen to it and "take action" or not, that's a different story.


This also reminded me of the "free the nipple campaign", and how people (particularly women) are aiming to allow women to walk topless/ be shown topeless in some circumstances.

I see nothing wrong with this, but they should not disregard the fact that both men and women find boobs more arousing than moobs (a.k.a. man boobs- sorry guys ). It is normal. It is natural. Men love lady breasts, and so do women, or at least some women (including myself ). Lady breasts, big or small, round or oval, pink nippled or dark nippled are a sign of fertility, and it is instinctual for men to enjoy seeing them.
I personally wouldn't show my breasts out in the public, because I consider them to be something I would only show to my lucky man () but if any other woman decides to show it, that's fine by me. However, and now I'm referring to the last argument that I will challenge: "she asked for it", women shouldn't be surprised if they arise attention from men by exposing some parts of their body, and this includes the rest of the female body, not just the boobies. Again, it is instinctual for men to enjoy breasts, seeing some bum bum or whatever else gets them excited. Vice versa for us ladies. If I see a guy's naked back, and he has a bit of definition to it, I find it hard to still have courtesy . Whether we like it or not, during puberty our body gets moulded into a sex machine, it is programmed to do so, because our species relies on it. By young adulthood our body is expecting to give it some lovin from somebody else, and it is natural. How we show our interest to our potential sex partners is a different issue.


And here comes the issue of rape, and I'll intertwine it with the "she asked for it" issue. Rape is a very unfortunate, disgusting, dreadful crime. So is stealing from and afterwards killing a person. So is paedophilia. And these are just a handful of examples. Why do these crimes happen? A criminal would usually aggress a person who would fits his/her criteria. A male rapist would most likely attack a female, should he be heterosexual. A female heterosexual rapist would attack a man. Homosexual rapists of either gender would attack people of their own gender. In a criminal's eye the victim is "an easy", helpless target, regardless whether the victim is a he or a she. So is a child in the eyes of a paedophiliac, and moreover- paedophiliacs don't only assault children because "they're easy", but also because they're mentally really into kids. A robber would most likely attack an older person, because they're less likely to fight back/run to them. A wolf would only attack a prey that's weak, either old, young or sick.
Nobody is ever asking to be assaulted in any way. A male heterosexual rapist, if "in the mood", will attack a woman/girl, regardless whether she's wearing a bikini or she's covered from head to toe.

It is true that women are more prone to being raped because there are more heterosexual rapists out there than any other type, but I believe that rape, just like any other crime, should be unacceptable for either gender. Men that are raped are often ashamed to speak out, primarily because they think that by doing so they're losing their manlihood.As far as the victims are concerned, being raped doesn't make you any more of a woman (= weak) than it makes you any less of a man(=weak).


This is a very long post that addresses only a handful of problems regarding "feminism"- both what it implies and how it is perceived by people of either sexes nowadays. As I mentioned in my second disclaimer, I invite you all who read and feel like they want to share their thoughts to do it; feel free to write pro-contra arguments of what I said, challenge the ideology by giving further examples and also say what's good with feminism and what should be kept. Thank you

Here's a link to make you smile after so much reading. Please feel free to watch the link before commenting, as it will melt your hearts and release good neurotransmitters in your brains. That way I'll be dealing with less rage from the ones who felt angered by what I said. Consider it a benefit for both you and I xD.

I am East European, and I come from a developing country; as much as it is treated as being in the highest rank of developing countries, the people currently in charge of its economy and industry are incompetent enough to bring us as low as Greece in the next years. As a young kid my parents had to leave the country to assure me a better life than they had, and I was passed on to 6 members of each of their families, and I've been in enough kindergartens to not even remember the names of my teachers. My young parents earnt their living through hard and honest work, and the fact that they were still dedicated to their jobs and tried to make their customers as happy as possible, even though they hated being away from home taught me so much about kindness.

I spent enough days of my childhood collecting water from tap drops and asking for bruised vegetables in markets (for my "pet" to make broth to know that my skin colour isn't worth crap. I spent enough days of my childhood running in a maze of concrete blocks from school and being too scared to look back at night (because finishing school at 9pm as a 13 year old is apparently a thing at home) to know that my white skin won't prevent me from getting kidnapped by my less orthodox neighbours from my district.

I also spent enough days in other countries to know that people with a kind heart will treat you like you were part of their family, and people who just want to hate you will only need a reason to hate you and judge you, and skin colour was not my issue, trust me.

I deny white privilege because I find it insulting for the people who aren't white and for people who are white but are not that fortunate "as it might be expected".

You can be poor, hopeless, hated, and white. You can be worried of what are you going to live out tomorrow and be white. That is just as unfortunate and should be just as unacceptable as being a poor/hopeless/hated person of any other colour.

I am East European, and I come from a developing country; as much as it is treated as being in the highest rank of developing countries, the people currently in charge of its economy and industry are incompetent enough to bring us as low as Greece in the next years. As a young kid my parents had to leave the country to assure me a better life than they had, and I was passed on to 6 members of each of their families, and I've been in enough kindergartens to not even remember the names of my teachers. My young parents earnt their living through hard and honest work, and the fact that they were still dedicated to their jobs and tried to make their customers as happy as possible, even though they hated being away from home taught me so much about kindness.

I spent enough days of my childhood collecting water from tap drops and asking for bruised vegetables in markets (for my "pet") to make broth to know that my skin colour isn't worth crap. I spent enough days of my childhood running in a maze of concrete blocks from school and being too scared to look back at night (because finishing school at 9pm as a 13 year old is apparently a thing at home) to know that my white skin won't prevent me from getting kidnapped by my less orthodox neighbours from my district.

I also spent enough days in other countries to know that people with a kind heart will treat you like you were part of their family, and people who just want to hate you will only need a reason to hate you and judge you, and skin colour was not my issue, trust me.

I deny white privilege because I find it insulting for the people who aren't white and for people who are white but are not that fortunate "as it might be expected".

You can be poor, hopeless, hated, and white. You can be worried of what are you going to live out tomorrow and be white. That is just as unfortunate and should be just as unacceptable as being a poor/hopeless/hated person of any other colour.

fair enough. But wouldn't you argue that in the wider scale the attitudes of many of those in the west and those who are white mean that issues surrounding people of colour aren't addressed as much? As in, sure, it's possible to be hated and white, but aren't there far more people of colour who are hated for their race?

Here in the UK many claim that immigration is bad for this country, but when they talk about immigrants they don't think of germans or white south africans or australians. They think of the bangladeshis, the ghanians, the people from 'bongo bongo land' or the polish. A lot of rhetoric that you would argue affects everyone I feel affects certain people more.

Hence why, of course, any discrimination is bad, but because the vast majority of it affects only a small and certain type/group of people who crucially aren't white, we have to understand that the vast majority of us white westerners are privileged.

That doesn't disprove the existence of white privilege in the slightest

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Please do develop your sentence.

lmao you are too horrible for that!


Anywho let me at least attempt b/c OP I don't particularly defend it myself.
x

You haven't actually made any explicit points against the notion of white privilege being real. There's no argument to argue against

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And as far as sexual performance, the man can just whip it out anywhere, shove it in a hole and be done. So it's understandable if he just ****s like it's his job. A woman has to take her clothes off, lift this up, lift that up, pull that down, slide that over, get naturally lubed, and take a penis in, and then Lord help you it hurts until you've done it enough times So it's like weird to say the least to know that a woman is so sexually active it's like dayyyum girl what kind of rubberband pussy do you have??? Obv it's not rubberband so it must be loose and stinky If a man is having numerous sexual partners, I mean it's understandable. Not agreeable, acceptable, honourable, etc. but understandable, yes.

5. Oh lord please save us from the "topless" act. women's breasts have far more and different functions than the male breast and people know it it's just not right or acceptable or reasonable for a woman to show her breasts, and they need to be protected anyway and holstered so it's just impractical above all us. In AFRICA and indigenous/3rd world countries, people are DISGRACED and ridiculed for letting it all hang out when they simply just do not have the resources nor the same standards or principles as western society to wear bras or clothes. So why make fun of them but promote the same thing here? Pervs! And what loose moralled women would actually be okay with that/promote that? Ugh. It's really not funny.

6. I agree with the catcalling thing, and I don't think women who get raped are victims. Like be responsible. This isn't jack the ripper where some guy in a mask is sliding out the shadows behind a skip and snatches a woman into some hole that leads to a netherworld sex dungeon Most rapes in this society are date rape/statutory, and if you're drunk beyond self respect or self defense....

This leads me to like when western women think they're feminist for some sort of badge and go on social media and bitch about something they know nothing about, and underline themselves as socially and politically aware and some unsung hero

I hate when they try to eradicate principles and standards in society because they cannot live up to them.

I hate when western women start campaigning for women in the East and Africa like mind your business and stop using their issues and exploiting them to further your agenda, whatever the bloody hell it seriously is .

I hate that feminism has gone beyond women's rights and equal work opportunity/education and into "if I want to slurp a stranger's cock on the tube I should be able to." Don't put that **** on all women like we all want that freedom. Girl, please If you want to be a skeetskeet and sleep with John and James and Joe without inevitable backlash don't bring it to politics to make a law for you to do this backlash free; just defend your hoeness on your own

I hate that feminism is such a grain of sand compared to the major issues in the world like racism and classism and extreme religious crusades. If you look at the demographic of feminists and put their random quotes and philosophies on a wall, it's just a bunch of whinery. It's almost on the same level as fat people rights

That doesn't disprove the existence of white privilege in the slightest

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I feel that I could channel so much hate in a reply that I'm just going to keep my courtesy to an acceptable level.
Here's a gif representing my faith in humanity whenever I read something like that
PS: white privilege is worth literally **** to grandpa. I'll try to convince him, though, that it does, maybe that way he'll throw a brick over my head and leave me in a coma

I didn't "disprove" its existence. To disprove, as far as my English is concerned, means to prove wrong/false. To me white privilege doesn't exist because it didn't do ****e to make my life any "whiter".

I didn't "disprove" its existence. To disprove, as far as my English is concerned, means to prove wrong/false. To me white privilege doesn't exist because it didn't do ****e to make my life any "whiter".

Just to let you know I read it and gosh didn't I enjoy it , not just your ideas but your way of saying things, it made my night a whole lot better.
I'm going to make myself a cuppa and read it again

I READ IT ALL.
You make some very good points, LaMandarine!

"seeing some bum bum" -
Made me laugh way more than it should've.

It means nothing in the scheme of things if you believe you haven't been subjected to white privilege

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And oh quills on wheels or whatever please don't ask me "what's wrong with doing what you want?" That is such a counterproductive, eternal hell of arguing. I simply disagree. Thanks for the reply though.