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Are anti-feminists sexist beasts or just stupid?

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At the end of the day, it's really just down to semantics; call it whatever but the point is that the vast majority of people want equal rights between genders and to be honest, that's the only thing that really counts.

That's true. Hopefully people will get rid of the mindset that any gender wants to be superior :smile:

Reply 61

Mark8346

Feminism focuses on the issues of one particular gender. You can't have equality by doing this. Humanism is a much more inclusive movement that doesn't play favorites like feminism does.

Original post by RonnieRJ

Men heard the "fem" part of the name and concluded women must be trying to overpower them. The only reason it's called feminism is to emphasise that it's the women that have been the oppressed gender for so long.

This is nonsense. It's called feminism because the focus is on females. You simply view the rejection of a movement that focuses entirely on your gender as some sort of attack on your gender. What non-female issues do you think it tackles?

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 62

rxns_00

Original post by Mark8346

Feminism focuses on the issues of one particular gender. You can't have equality by doing this. Humanism is a much more inclusive movement that doesn't play favorites like feminism does.

This is nonsense. It's called feminism because the focus is on females. You simply view the rejection of a movement that focuses entirely on your gender as some sort of attack on your gender. What non-female issues do you think it tackles?

See you're one of the people that makes feminism look so bad.

Women were the oppressed gender and you can't possibly argue against it! Women couldn't even vote not so long ago?

The point of creating equality is to bring females up to the same rights as males have, because men are still the superior gender. That's the point. That's the issue. It's a "female" issue because men have all the rights they want, females do not

Reply 63

Huskaris

I love how people who disagree with feminism "Don't understand its true meaning"

Or they do, and are pissed off that a lot of "feminists" don't...?

Reply 64

Frank the Tankk

I think modern feminism is obsolete. It had real causes to fight for up until around the 90s but we live in a more liberal society with no institutional benefits to being a man that aren't dreamt up by radical feminists in order to further their agenda that women are still oppressed. Feminism should play a role in an egalitarian movement which both men and women can be a part of.

Reply 65

Mark8346

Original post by RonnieRJ

See you're one of the people that makes feminism look so bad.

Women were the oppressed gender and you can't possibly argue against it! Women couldn't even vote not so long ago?

"Were" is past tense. We can only focus on female issues in 2015 because of what happened before you were even born? The past is not relevant, all that matters is what rights people currently have.

Original post by RonnieRJ

The point of creating equality is to bring females up to the same rights as males have, because men are still the superior gender.

There are a number of gender issues where men get the short end of the stick. Family courts for example, are extremely biased towards females. You can't pretend to be for equality if you only want to tackle issues to the benefit of females, and ignore issues where males are not treated fairly.

Original post by RonnieRJ

That's the point. That's the issue. It's a "female" issue because men have all the rights they want, females do not

This is false.

In conclusion, you seem to be admitting that the focus on feminism is on females, and your excuse is that females "deserve it" because of how they were wronged in the past. You can't pretend that you are for equality if you admit that you believe that only females issues should be tackled to "make up" for things that happened before you even existed. Your argument that there should be a special focus on your particular group is self serving and forged out of the desire to benefit yourself and your group exclusively, it is not an argument you make out of a desire for equality.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 66

jonnypowell

Is this thread's title offensive or just stupid?

Reply 67

7253567

I'm not against the ideas of feminism, its just can we enforce such views in a society that supposedly allows freedom of speech. Surely an employer should entitled to offer someone a job based on their parameters, not someone else's. If one of those parameters is that their employee should be a man, surely he should be allowed to make that decisions. Equally if they wants to offer a woman less money to do the same job, they should be able to do this, after all, it is up to the woman whether she accepts the job or not.

Reply 68

rxns_00

Original post by Mark8346

"Were" is past tense. We can only focus on female issues in 2015 because of what happened before you were even born? The past is not relevant, all that matters is what rights people currently have.

There are a number of gender issues where men get the short end of the stick. Family courts for example, are extremely biased towards females. You can't pretend to be for equality if you only want to tackle issues to the benefit of females, and ignore issues where males are not treated fairly.

This is false.

In conclusion, you seem to be admitting that the focus on feminism is on females, and your excuse is that females "deserve it" because of how they were wronged in the past. You can't pretend that you are for equality if you admit that you believe that only females issues should be tackled to "make up" for things that happened before you even existed. Your argument that there should be a special focus on your particular group is self serving and forged out of the desire to benefit yourself and your group exclusively, it is not an argument you make out of a desire for equality.

No you are clearly not getting my point. I am certainly not saying that it only happened in the past. Quite clearly, the wages for females are still lower, rape is still a thing (although men are also raped, it doesn't occur on such a scale as rape of women), there is still a huge need for charities and organisations helping women who are abused at home, sexism is experienced everywhere. The point is females are more oppressed than men. I am not ignoring male issues, there are simply less of them as once again males are still dominant in a range of aspects. It doesn't matter who is superior though, what does matter is that issues for both genders must be solved, but the reason I'm speaking about the female issues is because I'm a female and I can relate to those more easily, having experienced many myself. Male feminists are so valuable to the feminist community as they can bring up the issues that men are experiencing, so that we can bring both perspectives together and work to find a solution for all of them.

What you're saying about my views is simply offensive. You cannot correctly interpret what I'm saying, and yet your telling me what I believe in? No I'm sorry that's not how it works. If after reading this post you still don't understand what I am saying, I have no hope in you understanding any other point I'll try to make. I've literally taken part in so many threads on here about all kinds equality and quite frankly I have a passion for it. Do not tell me that I'm falsely calling myself an equal rights activist when you yourself have no idea about what I'm trying to say

Reply 69

Mark8346

Let's look at the sequence of events:

I argued that feminism only focuses on the issues of one particular gender. You respond with:

Original post by RonnieRJ

The point of creating equality is to bring females up to the same rights as males have, because men are still the superior gender. That's the point. That's the issue. It's a "female" issue because men have all the rights they want, females do not

Here you outright denied that any male issues exist.

Then you say:

Original post by RonnieRJ

I am not ignoring male issues

So first you denied that male issues exist, now you say you're not ignoring them. Ok.

Original post by RonnieRJ

Male feminists are so valuable to the feminist community as they can bring up the issues that men are experiencing

Once again, what male issues has feminism ever tackled? Stop pretending it doesn't have a female bias.

You are not getting my point. You cannot have equality by only focusing on the issues of one group. Feminism only tackles female issues and ignores male issues entirely.It's not a competition where if group A has more problems than group B, where we have to ignore trying to fix any of group B's issues and only focus on group A's issues.

Equality is when you treat everyone equally regardless of gender, religion, race, etc. Saying "Well my group is more oppressed than your group, so equality is when my group is exclusively focused on" doesn't make any sense.

Feminism is not about equality, it is simply about improving the circumstances of one particular gender. If you want to have equality you need to attempt to solve the problems that all groups experience. Feminism does not do this.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 70

rxns_00

"They can bring up the issues that men are experiencing, so that we can bring both perspectives together and work to find a solution for all of them."

@Mark8346 please tell me how this is saying we should focus exclusively on female issues "as that's equality".

And oh my god your "sequence of events" has no basis taking it out of context. Me saying why it's a female issue was addressing you and the point you made about that.

I'm not going to carry on arguing with you as it has no point and there is no reason for it. Clearly I can't get my point across to you without you trying to accuse me of hating or ignoring men or God knows what. Ill just stick to my views and ignore people like you because trying to explain things to you is absolutely useless

Reply 71

napkinsquirrel

Saying that you need feminism because more females suffer abuse than men is very disingenuous. It would be far more agreeable to just say; "we need to work together to end sexual assault and domestic violence". Things like that aren't an issue of gender bias.

Reply 72

cleverasvoltaire

There are no such thing as women's rights, just human rights.
In first world countries women and men have equal human rights.
Therefore feminism is obsolete and increasing women's rights would make men and women unequal.
Screw you feminism. Go back in your hole.

Reply 73

napkinsquirrel

Also, rather than feminism or egalitarianism, we already have a name for this and it would make it much easier to acknowledge: the gender equality movement.

Reply 74

blackened_sky

Original post by Mark8346

Once again, what male issues has feminism ever tackled?

Fights to end the idea that men aren't allowed to show their emotions because they're meant to be "manly", and can't talk about their feelings. An especially important topic seeing as male suicide rates are incredibly high.

Feminism showcases that men can experience sexual assault and domestic violence as well, and that it shouldn't be laughed off just because it happened to a man.

Feminism fights for equal rights, which includes LGBQT rights, which funnily enough includes men as well as women.

It attempts to breakdown all the traditional gender roles, so that men can wear pink and become dancers as much as women can wear blue and join the army.

If you think it only benefits women then you're being daft. Of course it's focused more towards women, but that's because it's still women who are lagging behind. There's the gender pay gap, there's women who are being murdered for being raped, there are women forced into marriage.

Reply 75

Mark8346

Original post by blackened_sky

Feminism fights for equal rights, which includes LGBQT rights, which funnily enough includes men as well as women.

Your argument is that feminism = equal rights and then you simply listed all of the rights that various groups have gained recently and you awarded feminism with the credit.

It's odd that you have absorbed the LGBT rights groups into feminism, no doubt using the reasoning that "Since feminism = equal rights, LGBT groups are feminist". That way you can simply award feminism the credit for every right-gaining event that you can think of.

Please provide evidence that feminism is responsible for everything you listed, instead of various other groups.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 76

blackened_sky

Original post by Mark8346

Your argument is that feminism = equal rights

Please provide evidence that feminism is responsible for everything you listed

Yes that is my argument.

I never said it was solely responsible, I said it supports those movements and fights for those rights alongside wanting women to be on equal footing with men.

I imagine LGBQT groups are feminist because it would be quite hypocritical for them to want equal rights for certain people, and not others.

It really isn't difficult to understand.

Reply 77

Mark8346

Original post by RonnieRJ

You are incredibly disingenuous. That is not your initial position. Your initial position was that men have no issues. Then when confronted you flip flopped without conceding you were wrong on that particular point, while pretending the above was what you said all along.

Original post by RonnieRJ

I'm not going to carry on arguing with you as it has no point and there is no reason for it. Clearly I can't get my point across to you without you trying to accuse me of hating or ignoring men or God knows what.

You got your point across. It was just wrong. You invent nonsense claims such as me accusing you of hating men (something I never said) as a shield against having to answer anything I asked you.

Original post by RonnieRJ

Ill just stick to my views and ignore people like you because trying to explain things to you is absolutely useless

I never expected you to do anything other than ignore people you disagree with.

Reply 78

napkinsquirrel

Can we stick to discussing the point in question rather than attacking each other please.

Reply 79

Mark8346

Original post by Mark8346

Your argument is that feminism = equal rights and then you simply listed all of the rights that various groups have gained recently and you awarded feminism with the credit.

Original post by blackened_sky

Yes that is my argument.

Well your argument is wrong. You can't simply take a movement that focuses on the issues of one group on the planet, and then decide "my favorite movement feminism is for equality, thus all movements that attempt to deal with rights issues are feminist! You want equality don't you? Then you're a feminist!!".

Feminism focuses on the female issues only. You are pretending that feminism means the same thing as egalitarianism so you can award it with as much credit as possible.