The Israel/Palestine Conflict Mk. IV

oh yeah cos being anti israeli is obv anti-semitism

Aren't you just reinforcing my argument though? If Hamas were better at permeating the Israeli defence it would lead to more Israeli casualties, correct?

Excellent. I'm glad you agree that there is nothing inherently objectionable about Zionism.



Indigenous? Where do you think the word Jerusalem comes from? Is it an Arabic word?

I'm pro- Palestinian on the Israel/Palestine issue and so are a lot of British Jews

I don't think its an issue of competence, I think they fundamentally lack the economic and technological resources to overcome the Israeli air defence system. In that case, I don't think it's an issue of the competence of their fighters, if anything Hamas are formidable opponents to Israel and they managed to keep up a high rate of rocket fire even under a withering counter-bombardment.

I find Hamas revolting, I find their positive desire for more Palestinian deaths (for propaganda reasons) deeply unpleasant. But I wouldn't say they lack skill or bravery in carrying out their missions

What ethnic cleansing? The population of Palestine has grown enormously over the past 60 years. The Arab population of Israel is growing faster than the Jewish population, is it not?

Ah, I understand.

So which side do you support?

The population has grown INSPITE of Israel's ethnic cleansing.

Are you a British Jew?



So what is your take on Israel's pullout from the Gaza strip in 2005?

Some ethnic cleansing; about 12,000 Palestinians have been killed in the last 60 years by Israeli action. How many Muslims do you think were killed by ISIS in one month, say June, last year?

And there are over a million Arab Israelis who have full support from the state in terms of their own schools, support from the welfare state to have many children.

The accusation of ethnic cleansing against Israel immediately discredits the accuser.

The west can't just go to a an existing country and demand they give up their land to create a new state....

The 2005 pull out doesn't mean Gaza is not occupied- Israel controls airspace, sea, water supply, electricity, population registry and eats into the land.

Wtf?! So Israel is Isis but Jewish, good for you for supporting the Jewish version of Isis.

I think there are a few issues with that narrative.

First, there was no existing country. There had never been a state called "Palestine", it had previously been a governorate of various Roman and Islamic empires. Going back a little way it was a patchwork of Jewish kingdoms. And it is important to emphasise that Jewish inhabitation of Palestine was continuous, there was never a time where Jews weren't living in Palestine, in various numbers, including in medieval and renaissance times.

Second, when Palestine was partitioned in 1948, the UN (who took responsibility from the British mandate that came out of the League of Nations and their defeat of the Ottoman Empire who previously controlled Palestine). At that point in 1948, there were about 500,000 Jews and 1.1 million Muslims. The UN sensibly decided that it was not plausible they could live together, and so partitioned the state into a Jewish majority state and a Palestinian majority state, with Jerusalem as an international zone.

The Palestinians, as they had more people, were given more land. Instead of accepting this, the Arab world (with an explicitly genocidal policy) rejected the partition and tried to seize 100% of the land by force.

They failed, and Israel was born. In the following years, many of the Jews who lived in countries like Egypt, Iraq, Yeman and Iran decided to move to Israel to escape persecution, and today a majority of Israeli Jews are descendents of middle eastern Jews

In 1967, Jordan (which controlled the West Bank) attacked Israel, Israel counter-attacked and took the West Bank. They didn't want it, they didn't pre-emptively set out to conquer it.

My points here is that it is highly complex, and not straightforward "Oh those evil European Jews set up a colonial state to evict the Palestinians". That is not accurate, historically



I agree. That is the only way forward, and we need it sooner rather than later

I don't see myself as a partisan supporting a side. I do, however, absolutely support the idea of the State of Israel, and I believe Israel was mainly on the defensive from 1948 to the late 1970s. They were lucky to survive.

However, I am also very committed to the idea of a two-state solution. I find the West Bank settlements repulsive, and I don't like the ultra-religious Israelis who are constantly whipping up hatred amongst Palestinians, who usually refuse to serve in the army and sit around on welfare having 12 kids.

I don't particularly like the way Israel has turned to the right in the last 20 years. On the other hand, there have been two very good chances for a comprehensive peace deal, particularly about 10 years ago when Israel pulled out of Gaza completely, and Olmert was ready to do a grand bargain. It is a tragedy that the Palestinians failed to act on that offer.

Anyway, I think I'm in the most difficult position, that of being a moderate, opposed to both Palestinian militancy and to the extreme religious Jewish element.

I know it's most complicated than that but still just cause there is a large population of a certain religion doesn't mean they should be given their own state

I understand that it's complex but I don't think that Israel's existence is justified from what I know so far.

If you think Israel is the Jewish version of ISIS, then you have completely lost the plot mate.