How come ISIS is still around?
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Original post by Okorange
Thing is if we put troops down we wipe em, but then they'll just regroup. The major weakness of american troops is that they are really expensive to maintain. I'm just wondering even for less well trained troops how come they can't advance when they can call in an air strike at any time. Its like playing war on easy mode. I have to commend the bravery at least of ISIS troops.
- Conquer Syria and Iraq and install a Western cabinet to guide over the countries development.
- Prevent domestic attacks by legitimising rule (get well respected Clerics in the communities and cities to consent, and parade them round, this is what the Sultans did to the Greeks after capturing Constantinople )
- Teach English as a first language and spread Western ideas.
Antiquated ideas of the nation state are getting in the way of what needs to be done
Original post by whorace
- Conquer Syria and Iraq and install a Western cabinet to guide over the countries development.
- Prevent domestic attacks by legitimising rule (get well respected Clerics in the communities and cities to consent, and parade them round, this is what the Sultans did to the Greeks after capturing Constantinople )
- Teach English as a first language and spread Western ideas.
Antiquated ideas of the nation state are getting in the way of what needs to be done
- Prevent domestic attacks by legitimising rule (get well respected Clerics in the communities and cities to consent, and parade them round, this is what the Sultans did to the Greeks after capturing Constantinople )
- Teach English as a first language and spread Western ideas.
Antiquated ideas of the nation state are getting in the way of what needs to be done
You would get accused of colonialism. The problem is they will never feel proud of their history if they feel like they were conquered. Its better to the just let them be but then we've already got ourselves in this mess.
Colonialism has reverberations for centuries, its better to just let them develop, even if they develop more slowly they only have themselves to blame. They can't blame us for everything, because what really happens is the local populace will blame americans or the west for everything that goes wrong even if those things are contradictory, just because its easy, its like blaming a non-existent person for all your woes.
Original post by Okorange
You would get accused of colonialism. The problem is they will never feel proud of their history if they feel like they were conquered. Its better to the just let them be but then we've already got ourselves in this mess.
Colonialism has reverberations for centuries, its better to just let them develop, even if they develop more slowly they only have themselves to blame.
Colonialism has reverberations for centuries, its better to just let them develop, even if they develop more slowly they only have themselves to blame.
Ah yes colonialism. The reason half of the world lives with common law... They will feel proud of their history once we rid the measles of nationalism, we will teach Arabic as a second language and keep Islam, in fact we'll use Islam to justify obedience to the colonists, and once the population is educated enough in Western ideas we'll give them independence. I'd consider leasing them to Turkey or Jordan to be honest.
Original post by Okorange
Considering how many forces are united against ISIS how come ISIS is still around? I would have thought with such strong military technology backing them that the ground forces would have been able to stop ISIS dead in its tracks, but recently ISIS has captured a new province in Iraq, Ramadi as well as a town in Syria, Palmyra.
have you ever questioned the US government I really wouldn't trust them, jet fuel cant melt steel beam, taliban members can't manoeuvre a jet carefully around building to hit a specific target that would take years of expertise so ask yourself who gives ISIS all this means to carry out their attacks, i'm muslim myself but i dont think i can stand these accusations any longer
so apparently they have 7 foot isis soldiers this is all a lie, i dont know what they're trying to get at but they wont quit its time we did something but what
Daesh is still around because it's more than a terrorist cell, more than an organisation or a state even. It's an idea. And ideas cannot be killed. It can be fought, using other ideas, but what ideas do we have left to give (or impose on) them? None, really. Our way of civilised life was completely rejected when we went into Afghanistan and Iraq and tried to "nation-build".
We constantly point out how this rapidly-growing collective of individuals are nothing more than barbarians and animals, willing to torture and kill the pious, the old and the young. What we love to ignore is that this is how things are in the Middle East. This is the standard of their quality of life and it has been this way for a very long time.
What's more is there is no real unified force arrayed against the Islamic caliphate. I mean, everybody hates them, sure. But they hate each other too -- the Gulf states have always had uneasy relationships with one another, to put it rather mildly. Iran for instance is operating with near-impunity in Iraq, fighting Islamic State using light infantry militia, which is giving the Saudis and Americans a bad case of diarrhea.
No, unfortunately IS will be around for quite a while yet. Strong military technology only works out well when it's put into trained hands -- the Iraqi military is a ghost of its pre-1991 self, full of deserters and conscripts who just don't want to be there. And sending US/NATO troops into Iraq or Syria will just invite a ****-storm of public outcries, not to mention the inevitability of casualties and once again fighting a battle we've already lost.
We constantly point out how this rapidly-growing collective of individuals are nothing more than barbarians and animals, willing to torture and kill the pious, the old and the young. What we love to ignore is that this is how things are in the Middle East. This is the standard of their quality of life and it has been this way for a very long time.
What's more is there is no real unified force arrayed against the Islamic caliphate. I mean, everybody hates them, sure. But they hate each other too -- the Gulf states have always had uneasy relationships with one another, to put it rather mildly. Iran for instance is operating with near-impunity in Iraq, fighting Islamic State using light infantry militia, which is giving the Saudis and Americans a bad case of diarrhea.
No, unfortunately IS will be around for quite a while yet. Strong military technology only works out well when it's put into trained hands -- the Iraqi military is a ghost of its pre-1991 self, full of deserters and conscripts who just don't want to be there. And sending US/NATO troops into Iraq or Syria will just invite a ****-storm of public outcries, not to mention the inevitability of casualties and once again fighting a battle we've already lost.
I'm heavily opposed to whorace's principles but they are correct in practice.
These people simply cannot maintain a nation state and their ideas are outdated to an extent where it is problematic to even help them.
They need a (British/UN) mandate.
These people simply cannot maintain a nation state and their ideas are outdated to an extent where it is problematic to even help them.
They need a (British/UN) mandate.
Original post by queen_pink
have you ever questioned the US government I really wouldn't trust them, jet fuel cant melt steel beam, taliban members can't manoeuvre a jet carefully around building to hit a specific target that would take years of expertise so ask yourself who gives ISIS all this means to carry out their attacks, i'm muslim myself but i dont think i can stand these accusations any longer
so apparently they have 7 foot isis soldiers this is all a lie, i dont know what they're trying to get at but they wont quit its time we did something but what
so apparently they have 7 foot isis soldiers this is all a lie, i dont know what they're trying to get at but they wont quit its time we did something but what
No one ever said steel did melt.
The Taliban never flew planes into the Twin Towers.
No one cares if you can stand these accusations they are true all the same. Why people struggle with the idea of religious extremists carrying out terrorist attacks I'll never understand.
So either ISIS ****ed up a propaganda video or it is all a lie and the US government are all behind it?
Original post by queen_pink
have you ever questioned the US government I really wouldn't trust them, jet fuel cant melt steel beam, taliban members can't manoeuvre a jet carefully around building to hit a specific target that would take years of expertise so ask yourself who gives ISIS all this means to carry out their attacks, i'm muslim myself but i dont think i can stand these accusations any longer
so apparently they have 7 foot isis soldiers this is all a lie, i dont know what they're trying to get at but they wont quit its time we did something but what
so apparently they have 7 foot isis soldiers this is all a lie, i dont know what they're trying to get at but they wont quit its time we did something but what
Have your taken your medication today?
Original post by whorace
Ah yes colonialism. The reason half of the world lives with common law... They will feel proud of their history once we rid the measles of nationalism, we will teach Arabic as a second language and keep Islam, in fact we'll use Islam to justify obedience to the colonists, and once the population is educated enough in Western ideas we'll give them independence. I'd consider leasing them to Turkey or Jordan to be honest.
It won't work, sure it worked for some countries but with the arabs its best to leave them to their own devices. They feel more justified in killing foreign troops than their own people, if you left them they will have no one to blame but each other and eventually the fighting will stop.
Original post by Aj12
No one ever said steel did melt.
The Taliban never flew planes into the Twin Towers.
No one cares if you can stand these accusations they are true all the same. Why people struggle with the idea of religious extremists carrying out terrorist attacks I'll never understand.
So either ISIS ****ed up a propaganda video or it is all a lie and the US government are all behind it?
The Taliban never flew planes into the Twin Towers.
No one cares if you can stand these accusations they are true all the same. Why people struggle with the idea of religious extremists carrying out terrorist attacks I'll never understand.
So either ISIS ****ed up a propaganda video or it is all a lie and the US government are all behind it?
what do you mean ' no one said steel did melt' where have you been lol what do you think the stucture of the twin towers were made from.. wood?
go do your freaking research
Original post by Okorange
It won't work, sure it worked for some countries but with the arabs its best to leave them to their own devices. They feel more justified in killing foreign troops than their own people, if you left them they will have no one to blame but each other and eventually the fighting will stop.
It worked everywhere else our attention wasn't wanted. They didn't want us in China, we did it, Hong Kong ruled safely for 100s of years.
Original post by queen_pink
what do you mean ' no one said steel did melt' where have you been lol what do you think the stucture of the twin towers were made from.. wood?
go do your freaking research
go do your freaking research
No one said the steel melted because steel can't melt at those temperatures. What does happen is that at the temperatures jet fuel burns at steel loses over half its load bearing strength causing it to collapse. I suggest you do your research since clearly you have no understanding of the terrorist attack, instead believing conspiracy theories because they suit your agenda.
Here is an explanation
Spoiler
The West has never really seen the Sunni-Salafis as its enemies, the West sees its enemies as
Assad
Iran's Mullahs
Ba'athists
IS hates these guys as much as it hates anyone, so all we shall see is David Cameron on the television condemning them, but ultimately doing nothing.
Assad
Iran's Mullahs
Ba'athists
IS hates these guys as much as it hates anyone, so all we shall see is David Cameron on the television condemning them, but ultimately doing nothing.
Original post by whorace
It worked everywhere else our attention wasn't wanted. They didn't want us in China, we did it, Hong Kong ruled safely for 100s of years.
That is just one example, how about Africa? The whole continent is a disaster. Only now starting to recover country by country.
Hong Kong was only ruled safely because the Chinese people were one of the first civilizations so they knew how to function in a system and in a society.
Sure it might work, but it might not as well and considering how violent arabs are willing to get its a pretty scary proposition. If you take over their country they will constantly target you with suicide bombs. You wouldn't be able to stamp out people who blend into society and then blow themselves up when they are near an embassy or a market or whatever.
#1 on any citizen's mind is the safety of his family and himself. If you can't provide safety you won't be supported. No one is going to accept a small risk of being blown to pieces when they shop at the local market. All you need is a region that disagrees with your rule to harbour these people, which you will have in most countries, then you'll get constant attacks. Even Pakistan can't control its own people from bombing its own cities and they have legitimacy of local rule, parts of the country are quite developed and they are more willing to use heavy handed tactics than the west, even then it hasn't stopped anything.
With the middle east, gone are the days of symmetrical warfare, now its all asymmetrical, you can't stop this sort of stuff. Besides, once you take it on as a responsibility you have the responsibility to make it right. How many billions are you willing to dump into these countries to make them right?
Original post by Okorange
That is just one example, how about Africa? The whole continent is a disaster. Only now starting to recover country by country.
Hong Kong was only ruled safely because the Chinese people were one of the first civilizations so they knew how to function in a system and in a society.
Sure it might work, but it might not as well and considering how violent arabs are willing to get its a pretty scary proposition. If you take over their country they will constantly target you with suicide bombs. You wouldn't be able to stamp out people who blend into society and then blow themselves up when they are near an embassy or a market or whatever.
#1 on any citizen's mind is the safety of his family and himself. If you can't provide safety you won't be supported. No one is going to accept a small risk of being blown to pieces when they shop at the local market. All you need is a region that disagrees with your rule to harbour these people, which you will have in most countries, then you'll get constant attacks. Even Pakistan can't control its own people from bombing its own cities and they have legitimacy of local rule, parts of the country are quite developed and they are more willing to use heavy handed tactics than the west, even then it hasn't stopped anything.
With the middle east, gone are the days of symmetrical warfare, now its all asymmetrical, you can't stop this sort of stuff. Besides, once you take it on as a responsibility you have the responsibility to make it right. How many billions are you willing to dump into these countries to make them right?
Hong Kong was only ruled safely because the Chinese people were one of the first civilizations so they knew how to function in a system and in a society.
Sure it might work, but it might not as well and considering how violent arabs are willing to get its a pretty scary proposition. If you take over their country they will constantly target you with suicide bombs. You wouldn't be able to stamp out people who blend into society and then blow themselves up when they are near an embassy or a market or whatever.
#1 on any citizen's mind is the safety of his family and himself. If you can't provide safety you won't be supported. No one is going to accept a small risk of being blown to pieces when they shop at the local market. All you need is a region that disagrees with your rule to harbour these people, which you will have in most countries, then you'll get constant attacks. Even Pakistan can't control its own people from bombing its own cities and they have legitimacy of local rule, parts of the country are quite developed and they are more willing to use heavy handed tactics than the west, even then it hasn't stopped anything.
With the middle east, gone are the days of symmetrical warfare, now its all asymmetrical, you can't stop this sort of stuff. Besides, once you take it on as a responsibility you have the responsibility to make it right. How many billions are you willing to dump into these countries to make them right?
0 we'll use taxation of the local people. As you say suicide bombings are regular occurrences already, Africa was in tatters previously and South Africa is one of the better countries
Original post by whorace
0 we'll use taxation of the local people. As you say suicide bombings are regular occurrences already, Africa was in tatters previously and South Africa is one of the better countries
You won't raise much from taxes, the people make almost nothing a day how can you expect to raise taxes... That will not cover the cost of anything. Africa is definitely worse off now than before, between all the civil wars and power struggles it hasn't improved. Africa left to its own devices would have consolidated into more powerful nations without western interference. Many of Africa's leaders were installed in place of democratic leaders just because the west wanted to play right wing vs left wing politics against the soviet union.
Original post by Okorange
You won't raise much from taxes, the people make almost nothing a day how can you expect to raise taxes... That will not cover the cost of anything. Africa is definitely worse off now than before, between all the civil wars and power struggles it hasn't improved. Africa left to its own devices would have consolidated into more powerful nations without western interference. Many of Africa's leaders were installed in place of democratic leaders just because the west wanted to play right wing vs left wing politics against the soviet union.
true, the west would rather have corrupt African leaders who support thier aims than leaders who cared about the people. Add to that the loansharking from the IMF and you have a big a** problem. The African continent has the natural resources to be completely self-sustaining, if conficts could be resolved and more cooperation and trading between countries, they could build better infrastructure.
Original post by queen_pink
what do you mean ' no one said steel did melt' where have you been lol what do you think the stucture of the twin towers were made from.. wood?
go do your freaking research
go do your freaking research
i mean you said 'No one ever said steel did melt.' so you're telling me steel dont melt
Original post by queen_pink
i mean you said 'No one ever said steel did melt.' so you're telling me steel dont melt
9/11 was george bush's reichstag fire
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