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The Arsenal Thread XXIII

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Original post by difeo
Course we are, just putting them in context, don't get mad


He's right though, you've been rekt
Original post by difeo
One with Ozil and Cazorla behind him, one with Delph and Cleverley


Precisely.

Both are lone strikers but Giroud has the added creativity of the Arsenal midfield behind him.
Of course that doesn't mean he'll be the centre of every opportunity Arsenal have, but nevertheless it still gives him an advantage to Benteke.

The mere fact that he has a better record is ridiculous in itself. Any Arsenal fan claiming Giroud is better is clearly clouded by bias.

I'm not claiming he'll be awesome at Liverpool, I'm just claiming he's a better player than Giroud in general and citing the relevant stats to prove it.


Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by difeo
Course we are, just putting them in context, don't get mad


I'm not mad. The stats show a 0.05 difference in goals to games. The context (aka meaningful stuff like the team around them, the player's actual ability, the tactics used, etc) is clearly much more important to the discussion.

So you're agreeing with me really.
Original post by Depleted
He's right though, you've been rekt


Lol not at all

What I'm saying is that saying "stats are pointless" in relation to strikers and goal rate, is stupid. I'm not arguing that Benteke is better than Giroud.
Original post by Lúcio
Precisely.

Both are lone strikers but Giroud has the added creativity of the Arsenal midfield behind him.
Of course that doesn't mean he'll be the centre of every opportunity Arsenal have, but nevertheless it still gives him an advantage to Benteke.

The mere fact that he has a better record is ridiculous in itself. Any Arsenal fan claiming Giroud is better is clearly clouded by bias.

I'm not claiming he'll be awesome at Liverpool, I'm just claiming he's a better player than Giroud in general and citing the relevant stats to prove it.


Posted from TSR Mobile


Is it really bias though? Most Arsenal fans constantly slate Giroud, and most would've been crying out for Benteke before he went to liverpool if they really thought he was better, but nobody was.



Do a poll.
Original post by difeo
Lol not at all

What I'm saying is that saying "stats are pointless" in relation to strikers and goal rate, is stupid. I'm not arguing that Benteke is better than Giroud.


True, but they can be meaningless if you don't take into account the system in which they're operating in!!!!!!!!

Spoiler

(edited 8 years ago)
Pretty sure Benteke doesn't go on goalless streaks for 10 games, while playing 90 minutes each match, every 6 months.
Original post by Depleted
True, but they can be meaningless if you don't take into account the system in which they're operating in!!!!!!!!


Wouldn't say meaningless but certainly the various mitigating factors should be considered!!
Hello, Arsenal fans. How's Ramsey been playing recently? As he's been awful for Wales the last few games.
Original post by The Shed End
Pretty sure Benteke doesn't go on goalless streaks for 10 games, while playing 90 minutes each match, every 6 months.


http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/560707/Aston-Villa-boss-Tim-Sherwood-Christian-Benteke
the express
The Belgium striker has scored just two Premier League goals for Villa this season since returning from a long-term lay-off in October.


Yeah of course he doesn't suffer goal droughts.
Original post by e aí rapaz
I'm not mad. The stats show a 0.05 difference in goals to games. The context (aka meaningful stuff like the team around them, the player's actual ability, the tactics used, etc) is clearly much more important to the discussion.
How do you intend to win and argument about the context? What are we using to evidence players around them, ability or tactics used? If I simply claim that you're wrong Arsenal are nothing more than a long ball team swing balls into Giroud who never provides service for team mates and does nothing other than shoot, where as Benkete actually keeps the ball impeccably and off far more limited service delivers roughly the same goals per game. Therefore is actually a far superior player. Where do we go from there other than round and round in circles?
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by The Shed End
Pretty sure Benteke doesn't go on goalless streaks for 10 games, while playing 90 minutes each match, every 6 months.


adding to what Jam said

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/christian-benteke/leistungsdaten/spieler/50201/plus/?saison=2014
Original post by jam277


Coming off the back of a long term injury, as opposed to Giroud at the end of the season, who was in stunning form and then probably became complacent and lethargic as he had no competition with Wele's injury.

Plus Benteke's goals helped Villa stay up, Giroud's goal's took Arsenal from 4th to 3rd.
Original post by The Shed End
Coming off the back of a long term injury, as opposed to Giroud at the end of the season, who was in stunning form and then probably became complacent and lethargic as he had no competition with Wele's injury.


Second part is irrelevant and doesn't require a response so I deleted it.

Also Giroud came back early from a long term injury last season so could have easily been him struggling with fatigue etc. from not healing entirely from the injury.
Anyway can somebody actually answer my damn question instead of arguing over a bull**** point about two strikers who realistically should not be starting for Arsenal.
Original post by The Wavefunction
Hello, Arsenal fans. How's Ramsey been playing recently? As he's been awful for Wales the last few games.


He's been awful for us too :frown:
Original post by Fizzel
How do you intend to win and argument about the context? What are we using to evidence players around them, ability or tactics used? If I simply claim that you're wrong Arsenal are nothing more than a long ball team swing balls into Giroud who never provides service for team mates and does nothing other than shoot, where as Benkete actually keeps the ball impeccably and off far more limited service delivers roughly the same goals per game. Therefore is actually a far superior player. Where do we go from there other than round and round in circles?


What you just described is a conversation. You know, exchanging opinions. The fact that we may not be able to change each other's minds just means it's a pointless conversation, like 90% of all conversations. More like 99% on the internet. (This one included).
Original post by Numan786
He's been awful for us too :frown:


Shame:frown: Don't think Wenger playing him out wide is doing anyone any favours
Original post by The Wavefunction
Shame:frown: Don't think Wenger playing him out wide is doing anyone any favours


I think it's his and Wenger's fault. Wenger for playing him on the wing but also Rambo's for having a messiah complex. He just tries to do too much and score goals. He's become easy to mark. Needs to go back to the basics and play a little deeper, running into the box every now and again.

It was from his late runs that he'd usually score from. He also holds on to the ball for too long and is slow when it comes to turning/dribbling and picking a pass.

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