I have 0 faith in British Doctors

Original post by Bill_Gates

1. Nope we pay extra taxes for an adequate NHS which we deserve. Not some half wit doctors. We expect professionals.
2. Yes they are in comparison to the world
3. Many in the developed world are in debt. Donald Trump is in debt.

Lol well then you need to pay them more. It's pretty simple stuff, this is how the world works. Here are your options:

1. Pay them a lot more and direct some of those management consultants and bankers into medicine.
(I am a first class oxbridge graduate with a perfect academic record who left medicine cos it didn't pay enough).

2. Sack all the doctors you think are stupid and keep the pay the same. What do you get? People die because of a shortage of doctors.

You can't just demand you want better doctors for the same amount of money because you FEEL you deserve better doctors for the money you pay. That's not how economics works. You get what you pay for.

Reply 23

Original post by Awesome Genius

Lol well then you need to pay them more. It's pretty simple stuff, this is how the world works. Here are your options:

1. Pay them a lot more and direct some of those management consultants and bankers into medicine.
(I am a first class oxbridge graduate with a perfect academic record who left medicine cos it didn't pay enough).

2. Sack all the doctors you think are stupid and keep the pay the same. What do you get? People die because of a shortage of doctors.

You can't just demand you want better doctors for the same amount of money because you FEEL you deserve better doctors for the money you pay. That's not how economics works. You get what you pay for.

Personally i would just re-design the system. Have free healthcare for the poor and then offer lower taxes to everyone else and open up the market for competition. You will have private firms willing to undertake a lot of the work for much cheaper globally.

In a socialised system you do not get what you pay for. You get lazy/idle half witted doctors who expect the world and offer little in return. Then you have to implement bureaucracy in order for everyone to do their bit which adds to the cost.

Reply 24

Original post by Bill_Gates

Personally i would just re-design the system. Have free healthcare for the poor and then offer lower taxes to everyone else and open up the market for competition. You will have private firms willing to undertake a lot of the work for much cheaper globally.

In a socialised system you do not get what you pay for. You get lazy/idle half witted doctors who expect the world and offer little in return. Then you have to implement bureaucracy in order for everyone to do their bit which adds to the cost.

That doesn't get around the fact that if doctors know they can't get away with being "lazy/idle" then they just won't go into medicine anymore. They'll do something else. The problem you have is that for a certain job output the market assigns a certain value. You will never get better doctors without paying them more money. The only cost saving you get, as you say, is if you do away with pointless managers.

And just out of interest, how many A* do you have? Where do you study? I get to call some doctors dumb because I've grown up around them, I know which ones are dumb and the fact is that the vast majority aren't. Theyre quite smart. How do you qualify your comments?

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 25

Original post by Awesome Genius

That doesn't get around the fact that if doctors know they can't get away with being "lazy/idle" then they just won't go into medicine anymore. They'll do something else. The problem you have is that for a certain job output the market assigns a certain value. You will never get better doctors without paying them more money. The only cost saving you get, as you say, is if you do away with pointless managers.

And just out of interest, how many A* do you have? Where do you study? I get to call some doctors dumb because I've grown up around them, I know which ones are dumb and the fact is that the vast majority aren't. Theyre quite smart. How do you qualify your comments?

Nope. Not the case. We want genuine doctors in the field who genuinely care and want to help people. Opening up the market for the private sector will mean more transparency. You will go to the doctors who are adequate. Hence the ones who deserve the extra pay will get it through increased patients.

No need to pay them a pound more.

Reply 26

justag

11

Original post by scrotgrot

Yes but why shouldn't they use a lookup service. Even if they know it checking what they think they know can only be a good thing. There's quite a lot of stuff in medicine you can't expect everyone to be an expert on everything. My brother has a rare disease and there are only like 5 hospitals in the country or something that have a specialist that really knows about it. If you sacked them for such a stupid reason you wouldn't have anyone to replace them with because it's literally impossible for anyone to know everything about such a broad subject which is changing all the time

Can you read? I said common and everyday diseases. Your brother obviously doesn't count. I went in for a common thing cos I literally just wanted a prescription and to go. The old guy spent ages faffing about looking up the drug to prescribe and how to treat it. I had a fairly common illness. He should have known it like the back of his hand.

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Reply 27

Original post by Bill_Gates

Nope. Not the case. We want genuine doctors in the field who genuinely care and want to help people. Opening up the market for the private sector will mean more transparency. You will go to the doctors who are adequate. Hence the ones who deserve the extra pay will get it through increased patients.

No need to pay them a pound more.

When you start saying things like "genuinely want to help people" and such like, there's no point in contuing the discussion.

Reply 28

ElephantMemory

8

95% of Doctors blag their way into the NHS. It doesn't even take that much effort. It's like blagging your way into a Ronan Keating concert.

Reply 29

vanillapod

11

Original post by justag

Nah I just don't think some doctors are very good. A lot is demanded of them, there should be a greater variety of healthcare professionals of equal status/pay to doctors, so that they don't have to literally Google the cure to your illness while you're sitting there (I've seen it done many times and rolled my eyes). I could have done that myself. That's why i have less respect for doctors.

Your doctors sound like they suck.

I think everyone has to understand that doctors are not machines and there's a lot to know about the human body, so a doctor googling is probably not comparable to you googling (doctors know what to ignore and what is unlikely/what they're looking for/maybe want to check 1 or 2 things to do with current management guidelines, which change frequently). It'll be a bit dodgy if the doctor had no clue what was wrong with you lol but i think society expects them to be medical dictionaries,

Either way, don't generalise and all of that stuff

Reply 30

Original post by Awesome Genius

When you start saying things like "genuinely want to help people" and such like, there's no point in contuing the discussion.

So you're saying everyone makes career choices based upon ££££ only. Now that's just plain silly. As most the UK are relatively well off they do look at other characteristics of the job and not just how much money they can get. Did you only do economics 101 or something? Appears to be a very third world mentality.

Glad you want to end the convo with an intellectual superior. We will not pay a £ more to doctors and we shall bring reform!

Reply 31

FireDwarf2

1

People really need to stop calling it googling, they are consulting a online medical directory/ dictionary. I don't get why it's fine lawyers use books to consulate regarding various laws and such, but an action by a doctor is seemed as absurd?

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Reply 32

marrimerro

8

I dint trust doctors anymore either. Because they refused to give my fourteen years old brother an MRI scan.

Despite him being in immense pain for six months.

Despite my parents practically begging for six months for an emergency MRI scan.

My gp, local hospital and even a specialist said NO.

Then in April my brothers pain had increased drastically. My parents had to rush him to the hospital because 999 refused to come, despite my brother being in no condition to walk.

A scan was done and we found out he had had a tumour growing in his spine for those past six months. Surgery was done but the entire tumour couldn't be removed.

Shortly after the doctors found out the tumour had developed into a very aggressive cancer known as Euwing Sarcoma.

My brothers had over six sessions of intense chemotherapy.

So yeah I hate specific doctors..but not all doctors are awful at their job.

Reply 33

Original post by Bill_Gates

So you're saying everyone makes career choices based upon ££££ only. Now that's just plain silly. As most the UK are relatively well off they do look at other characteristics of the job and not just how much money they can get. Did you only do economics 101 or something? Appears to be a very third world mentality.

Glad you want to end the convo with an intellectual superior. We will not pay a £ more to doctors and we shall bring reform!

Money and risk are big parts of where people end up working. Doctors expect reasonable money and low risk. That means if they cock up, no one does anything and they keep progressing up the ladder.

If you want to make the job riskier, ie open things up so that a doctors performance becomes important you will lose a lot of people unless the money goes up too.

Whether or not you could sack enough managers to offset that rise in wages is difficult know.

Genuinely wanting to help people and all that stuff doesn't come in to the picture.

Reply 34

justag

11

Original post by vanillapod

Your doctors sound like they suck.

I think everyone has to understand that doctors are not machines and there's a lot to know about the human body, so a doctor googling is probably not comparable to you googling (doctors know what to ignore and what is unlikely/what they're looking for/maybe want to check 1 or 2 things to do with current management guidelines, which change frequently). It'll be a bit dodgy if the doctor had no clue what was wrong with you lol but i think society expects them to be medical dictionaries,

Either way, don't generalise and all of that stuff

You don't need to go to uni for 5 years and be paid well to Google.

Reply 35

Original post by Awesome Genius

Money and risk are big parts of where people end up working. Doctors expect reasonable money and low risk. That means if they cock up, no one does anything and they keep progressing up the ladder.

If you want to make the job riskier, ie open things up so that a doctors performance becomes important you will lose a lot of people unless the money goes up too.

Whether or not you could sack enough managers to offset that rise in wages is difficult know.

Genuinely wanting to help people and all that stuff doesn't come in to the picture.

Please refer back to my original new system set up. You won't encounter these problems.

What would happen is the inadequate doctor will not have as many patients and end up with lower pay or working where the poor are looked after. It's a much fairer system for everyone involved and everyone gets more for their hard earned £. Plus it's not a bad thing if an inadequate doctor decides to leave the industry if anything it will save lives. That's competition and that's how markets work. Why pay risky lack lustre doctors the same as excellent sufficient doctors.

Reply 36

scrotgrot

16

Original post by justag

Can you read? I said common and everyday diseases. Your brother obviously doesn't count. I went in for a common thing cos I literally just wanted a prescription and to go. The old guy spent ages faffing about looking up the drug to prescribe and how to treat it. I had a fairly common illness. He should have known it like the back of his hand.

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Well it is all interlinked, you come in with a hacking cough and your proud doctor who works on his own gut feeling gives you some Linctus and tells you to go away, then a few months later you're dead from throat cancer. Generally people don't come to the doctor knowing what's wrong with them, or at least in theory you're supposed to go systematically from symptoms to diagnosis.

I don't know that a pleb like you or me really has much authority to criticise a trained GP on how they go about diagnosing their patients, apart from anything else they have to put it on your medical records and maybe send an electronic request to the prescription desk? So might as well stick it in the search box and click through from there. I mean I don't know if that's how it works but it probably should be. Hell maybe he just didn't know how to spell the name of the drug :')

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 37