What leads to fear of commitment in men?

Oh and the only reason I daydream about having kids is because I daydream simply about people complimenting me on how cute my kid is. Not because I want a man and a family. I suppose I don't.

That's incredibly egocentric of you.

Thanks for judging me. You probably didn't read the longer post or you'd understand that I have little faith in relationships.

I did not judge you. I merely reached a conclusion based on a fact (you want a kid to use him as a compliment bait).
That is irrelevant to how you feel about relationships.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

About your Epicurus thing. Well the Greeks I believe have different types of love. There's eros which is sex. And something else which is brotherly love. And then a third love I think, for the parent to child. I feel each person should have each kind of love in them. Why not? I can lose a friend and be hurt as well. Or a child. Or my mother. Should I be a recluse to avoid pain? It reminds me of this Spongebob episode (yes, Spongebob). He was afraid of getting physically hurt and so he stayed indoors all day. And when he got lonely and bored and realised how stupid this was, he engaged in socialising again. I know it's a cartoon but as a kid it had some significance for me. I can't hide and not live or try because I'm afraid of pain. Which oddly I am doing now. But now it's not because of fear, it's because I can't be bothered to care about affection anymore. I actually don't talk to my mother as much because I tell myself casually when I'm like washing dishes or something, "at least I won't miss her when she goes." I don't think I can handle it. But is it right? No, it's ridiculous. But ok, you are dating someone so you're better than I am I guess. It's not like men don't want me, I just don't want the heartache or headache. I can't handle it. I'm not even sad about it anymore. You can stop reading if this gets too cringe. I might have opened a wound when it was you who I was interrogating.

My thing about not dating anymore is because I have a high sex drive, and I know this because I have always since a kid fantasised about sex and almost took my own virginity. I'm dying laughing as I write that because I didn't realise what was happening until it began to hurt. So to answer your question, I literally have done nothing, except masturbation, which I considered getting counseling for. But I've weaned myself off it in recent years. I've never given a blow job and can't remember how penetration feels.

Anyway about the sex drive, yes I masturbate it away or keep busy or get stone faced when a good looking man approaches me or adamantly pursues me. I've inoculated myself against the pleasure of being with a man. I walk down the street almost like just so men won't talk to me. If men didn't have glorious penises I would be asexual. I really don't think about the future or being married of having kids. I daydream about it but do not think it'll happen for me nor do I plan for it. This is probably not helping my case with you about how horrible women are. But I agree 100% with hardening myself in society to avoid being seen as vulnerable or being taken advantage of. I'm not mean, I haven't lost my sense of humour or instinct to protect or anything, I haven't lost desire to be with a man sexually, I just have lost desire of being committed. I actually feel like gagging thinking about it.

Give me an example of a culture where people normalise after falling from grace? Do you mean like ancient tribes or Islam or something? I don't disagree, just looking for a pointer. I agree that in this society where everyone can do what they want there is no standard for how to be and when two people get together there's no foundation to build anything on, whereas in a more traditional society, there's a norm and then outsiders. I mean we have that in the west as well but not really. Like you can be ostracised in one part of town for not being like everyone in the area but then you move to another part of town in search of acceptance and can find a totally different world. But I'm sure in like Afghanistan, one end is like the other lol. There's no escape, you have to adhere to a set of principles or else. I might not agree with their principles but I agree with the concept. Love games here is too much of a dice toss and I'm COMPLETELY UNinterested and it's ****ed, I know. I'd either have to find someone as uninterested and just in it for sex, or some kind of hero. Ugh.

Oh and the only reason I daydream about having kids is because I daydream simply about people complimenting me on how cute my kid is. Not because I want a man and a family. I suppose I don't.

first of all no problem at all.

exactly but i think out of all those loves the love between a man and a women is the weakest.
family love is non competitive.
friendship love is less competitive.
but love between lovers? thats competitive. people naturally want the alpha. and if you think there is someone more alpha then the alpha your with. then you desire them.

I feel the spongebob analogy. i guess the problem is that i want to take the risk of loving and getting hurt.
but im just numb to a lot of the feelings. its like i have an emotional immune system that fights off emotional vulnerability.
i feel you on the parent thing and trying to build a wall of defense emotionally against inevitable loss.
i wouldn't say i'm better than you because of it. i mean especially given the reasons behind it.
n no worries its often things we can relate to ourselves that make us respond.


wow thats quite hardcore. but yea masturbations awesome. its hard to beat. i mean a nice dinner, masturbation and a documentary. pretty damn good night. something tasty something pleasurable and something educational. whats not to like? but kudos to the self discipline.

interesting though when did you first start to see commitment as danger?



hmmm a culture normalizing falling from grace? interesting phrase.
im not sure about them doing that. but certainly shared meaning of whats meant to be and what is desired.
like islam and judaism are pretty dominating religions where people have a strict way of being with very defined rolls for men and women. certain indian sects. sikhism. basically most places outside of europe and the americas.
but islams a good one. more for men than women. but i notice more women desiring it due to at leas there being some roll to follow. even if its a disadvantaging one.

yea definitely a lack of shared "givens" and "norms" causes a lot of confusion and a tug of war in every relationship and thus complicating it. it can be restrictive but the lack of responsibility is quite liberating. there was a study i found a while back regarding chocolate. and the found that people with one piece of chocolate loved the chocolate. but people with various choices enjoyed the chocolate they got less.

some kind of hero aha.
as for uncommitted sex that can be an emotional mine field where one party gets attached and the other doesn't or you both end up being in a relationship.
tbh thats how i got in the relationship that im in now loool.



ah i see. you see i do want a family. but thats my own issue. i think cause i didn't come from a typical family i really desire it. but then also i know enough to know it won't be what i want it to be. so i know i won't get my desire. which is annoying that i have it in the first place.

but thats interesting. so you want the kid as like an extension of yourself?

i do have a sort of fatherly desire to raise a crew or tribe of my own. probably male instinct.
to the point where i see a partner as so unreliable i thought of just plain old adopting.

but the cave man in me keeps telling me i need to have a child that looks like a mini me.

ah i see. you see i do want a family. but thats my own issue. i think cause i didn't come from a typical family i really desire it. but then also i know enough to know it won't be what i want it to be. so i know i won't get my desire. which is annoying that i have it in the first place.

but thats interesting. so you want the kid as like an extension of yourself?

i do have a sort of fatherly desire to raise a crew or tribe of my own. probably male instinct.
to the point where i see a partner as so unreliable i thought of just plain old adopting.

but the cave man in me keeps telling me i need to have a child that looks like a mini me.

You must come from a good family. I began to pull away from my mother when I saw she wanted me and my older sister to engage in some competition for her love. She even told me it's not unconditional how she feels for us.

You must also have good friends lol. Actually when I see someone wants to one up me I immediately stop being their friend. I just cut off contact and turn my head up to them and walk passed. I don't trust that so in that regard you might be right, if you have a good friend anyway.

I would get tired competing with my lover. I don't have an issue submitting for harmony's sake but also, expecting respect in return of course.

Well the issue was when I lost my virginity. How he treated me afterwards compared to how he treated me to get me. He physically attacked me. I bawled my eyes out and made an oath that I wouldn't sleep with anyone again. And I haven't. It seems I can be so committed but to not being committed. Interesting. It wasn't really issues with my dad, even though he sort of got up and didn't look back. I think that actually might be it. Now that I type it out. I feel nothing and might be traumatised and can't love, I don't know.

And yea normalising from grace; I was thinking of how to word it. But basically you know when someone does something forbidden or looked down upon in their culture, they either redeem themselves in the eye of their community or remain as outsiders. Remember when the west had "looked down upons." These days nothing is looked down upon. It's seen as regressive to look down on someone especially in matters of sex. My feelings toward sex haven't changed and for others it has. So I don't bother trying to explain to men who are interested in me that I can't suck a cock. But I am not against it but somehow it ends up being a grilling. And then i get offended like, why must I have had sex before? Because I'm black?

Oo the chocolate one is interesting, and not just because I like chocolate candy.

And so your current relationship started from sex like FWB? Who initiated the relationship? Like how do people initiate those now? lol

Oops, just saw this.
What is it that you want from a family?
Cave man lol I want a child that is an improvement of me, but a reflection of my values as an adult which I can't control. I want to die knowing my kid grew up to be a good and successful person. And attractive

Hi I'm just wanting to know people's thoughts on some of the factors that lead to some men being so afraid of commitment. Of course I'm aware that some women have the same fear of commitment but I suspect the reasons are different and I would like to explore the reasons in men.

In case you are curious I am in my mid 20s and have only ever attracted men who turned out to be emotionally unavailable and fear commitment, and as a result I have never made it to being the girlfriend (no I didn't sleep with any of the men). I'm sick of these men being drawn to me but also acknowledge that there must be a reason I am drawing them into my life. I've been trying to look within to see why this might be and the only thing I can think of is my father is has always been physically present (still married to mother, living with us) but emotionally absent. What can I do?

ah my family had its problems. the whole parent child roll was reversed where i felt like i had to look after my mom rather than the other way round. but i think that might be kinda typical for guys from single parent families.

ah tbh if you are a guy with male friends most of if not a minimum half of what your interaction involves is a sort of cock measuring competition. but i guess i don't really rely on friends that much either. i see them as useful. but that most if not all would stab me in the back to take whats mine if they could. but i guess the difference is. a friend is easier to keep at a safe distance than a lover. and if a friend screws u over it is easier to clean up the damage. but a lover gets right into your heart right into the cogs of your working and screws with you. friends can only dent ur armour.


its not so much competing with your lover but competing with everyone else to stop them from stealing your lover. but yea its tiring.

ah yea that'll do it. when did your dad leave?
interesting. do you still desire love though?
cause i flip flop with what i want with love. one part of me wants it like a good drug but anothers afraid of how that drug will ruin my life.

yea exactly now people can do whatever. but i've noticed it has a negative effect on kids.
its funny. when contraception was invented crime went down massively 20 years later.
n academics believe that most criminals are young men just entering adulthood
and that the boys that would of been born into bad homes didn't get born due to contraception.
and thus a whole generation of unwanted children that would turn into criminals 20 years later was avoided.
yea its a shame black girls are more sexualized than white girls. i don't think hip hop videos helped.

however they've noticed crime has started to rise again. and i feel its due to the lack of sexual responsibility our generation has. or should i say the generation before us.

exactly. i did find it interesting that people overwhelmed with choice were less happy then what they have. which makes me think restrictive forms of society may make a good majority of people happy. due to being given strict set guidelines to follow. that way you don't have to think as much about what your doing and can just kind of exist with a bit less stress.

hmmm. I'm not sure really. I think it was just mutual. we would catch the bus together from a class we both went to.
I invited her in to chill. came round 2 times. 2nd time she kind of pretended that she wanted to go somewhere in the room (that she had no need to go to) but it involved getting close to me and i pulled her to me and kissed. then had sex. but she was thinking of getting back with her ex and so was i. we spoke about it to each other. but just made a regular routine of it. but then she got back with her ex. which hurt. cuz i was getting to like her. my ex tried to get back with me but i was just kinda done really.
then 2 months later the fwb came running back saying shed broke up with her ex and wanted to be with me.

so thats how it started n thats how it ended up in a relationship.

I guess. I want to start my own legacy. using my surname as a brand of reputation and status.
so for this i want a very social and politically savvy but also noble women to have kids with.
who won't embarrass the family or let us down by doing something stupid like cheating or flirting or just making the family unit look weak in general. I want to do better than my parents and my kids to do better than me.
I want a large amount of kids (for a westerner).
around 8ish. enough for them to be a collective cabinet of the family name and business.
and when i say cabinet i mean like a political cabinet with ministers responsible for different things.
then with each kid having a set duty for the family that is also related to their career, it would provide much more opportunities for the grand kids. because if there's one thing i've learned in life its not what you know it's who you know rings very true. and the more people you know and the stronger your family is the better your chances are.

ive noticed all the people who do the worst as a cultural group are people who have notoriously broken up families.whereas the people who do the best have very strong families.and yes i want them all to be attractive.

Oh you're from a single parent? I see. Aw you look after your mother, that's nice. As in financial support or emotional like protection? Or both? I kind of relate because I've kind of picked up the "son" role after my dad left. As far as protection goes; when my mum has to fight verbally or physically with someone she calls me, or when she needs anything like someone to look after the house or last minute backup money or someone to carry heavy stuff, climb a ladder or to open new bottles of ketchup or something, she calls me. However when she has men around she doesn't want me around. Even though I'm sure she and I have different tastes.

Oh I get it now. I thought you meant competing with my lover, because I know people do that. Whether it's with wits or pay.

I don't really make friends with people the way I used to. It used to be I'd socialise with baggamans but have a private trio I rolled with. It always worked like that with all the places I had to move to and new schools. I got everyone to know me and like me but drew the line still with my actual friends. When I needed clothes, devices or shelter or food even I had them. I was younger and had time for that. But now in Uni I haven't got to that point. I trust no one. Is that horrible?

I do agree like getting stabbed in the face by a friend is different than a lover. I really don't know why I guess the emotional investment but I get devastated when anyone ****s me over. So I keep away from everything now. I chat to people but that's it. People invite me out, I make up a lie. Or ignore them. It's safe and I'm not unfulfilled I just know there's gonna come a point where I need to give a ****. I guess.

My ex who's like twice my age told me I need to fix how I talk to people lol he said I can't talk to people so rudely and aggressively anymore. I looked him dead in his eyes and said I don't give a **** and he just looked completely startled. I mean why do I need friends? How are they useful? How are your friends personally useful to you? They've always been a headache for me. I mean I guess for a good laugh. But I make myself laugh.

I grew up with my dad but my mother made him leave when I was 7 and they reunited out of nowhere when I was 10. And we left when I was 12. I haven't seen him since but he knows where we live and stuff but even when we lived together he forgot my birthday and cheated and stuff. I just numbed myself and I hate "numb" it sounds so ****ing emo, so like desensitised. I think that's a better word lol

And no I don't desire love AT ALL. I am completely like...whatever. I want sex from a man. If that. I mean the only reason I value a man is for his penis and I've managed to stay away from that as well.

I don't sit around like envisioning myself moping around in life and some guy comes to pick me up and put me together. Only when I'm really sad and need tear jerking. Which is rare.

I don't look around at other couples like "that's so sweet. *hearts for eyes*."

I don't stare out my window wondering when my knight in shining armour is going to come and swing me on the back of his motorbike. I look out my window wondering when the delivery man is coming. That's about it.

I don't put on perfume so a guy I anticipate seeing will think, "damn she smells good." I put it on so I don't offend people on the tubes.

I don't do my hair so guys can say, "wow you look nice." I do my hair so I don't look mental.

I don't go shopping so guys can say, "Hey. Cool shoes." I go shopping so I can embody my fashion icons. Not to say I don't put in effort, I can't help being naturally good looking but I don't have care for others. I mean I wear long sleeves and work boots in 70-80 degree weather And I feel bad for girls showing everything. Because it's like I've never left the house showing my legs since wearing my uniform skirt. Yet I haven't struggled to get a man's attention.

I must be crazy because as time goes by, I get sad. I get sad that because I'm a woman I am looked at as fodder for some man I'm not even paying attention to. I have had a philosophy in life that says "I want respect, not to be liked." You can dislike me. Just don't disrespect me. You can talk about me. Just don't touch me. So how I interact with other people and how I dress and me pushing people away, it's kind of my display of my mind. How I got to this point, no clue.

Condoms were invented and crime went down? I looked up when condoms were invented lol and it was like the 19th century, maybe before. I didn't know condoms had a correlation to crime, that's interesting. Tell me more? I would think that crime would go up since people felt they could do whatever they wanted now that there's a rubber bag on them. How does that feel? Condoms?

Yes, the generation before us, the 60s babies, 70s teens. The stupid dopes were mad at how they were beaten before; now it is illegal. Or women were finally able to work and did as they pleased in relationships, or introduction to crack and the hippie movement, and the baby boomers which I believe is when people realised they could now have all these kids and get aid for it finally and still be able to work. The dawn of excessive consumerism and suburbia as what I think is part of a comeback from the WWII and the Great Depression and ...stuff. So (early 90s, late 80s born kids) our parents basically lost their ****ing minds because their parents did. Our grandparents either did well and bounced back from the war, or were left to struggle in council housing and **** neighbourhoods that seemed to have missed the memo that the war is over. And then raised our parents in an age where women were beginning to do for themselves, whether by circumstance or stupid choice. That's what happened in my family, especially on my mother's side. They're crazy. And so my mom is crazy. And I refuse to go crazy even if everyone else is already heading there by default. Which, granted, might make me seem crazy to others. But I've simply turned the default switch off. Which can be good. Whether I'm going in the right direction or not, eh.

Oh my god, that is so romantic lol Oh. You made the move. Well, I can't say how I would've reacted. But I don't think it would've lead to a relationship. I probably would've run away screaming. I've been very close to having sex in these years but each time it involves me being there passed the sun setting with him still trying to convince me to give it up. And next thing I know we're eating and watching films and it's nighttime, or the next day. And he drives me home or walks me to the station promising that I'll change my mind soon. I don't. I have slumber parties with men rofl. Sexless slumber parties. I don't know how common this is.

You know what it probably is? It's probably some kind of game I play. Like I wonder how long this happy sleepover will last before he reaches over and tries to make me, giving me the reason to deck him. And feeling triumphant when I survived to tell the tale. That's how my first time went. It's like I replay it out in real life. Like I'm doing it over and over but it ends how I want it to end, not the man this time. Oh my God that sounds so ****ed up now that I type it out. But I just want to be respected. I don't think I'll ever have sex again or find love because I always worry the guy isn't in it to respect me, he just wants sex. I can't take the risk.

That's interesting. I always thought of families as simply what happens when you have sex and make babies and don't leave them to die somewhere, and then you wake up one day and they're big as hell laying around waiting for the next move to be made. I never thought it was like a mini army to march through life. But when each person thinks this way, then more families might end up this way, and then as a people they would be better, and then society would be better. However I don't really think about society lol And I don't see myself as another black person on a daily basis; only when it comes to politics. When it comes to personal choices I do my own thing thinking only of me lol Maybe I should stop I don't know.

Oh my gosh, that's such a good point. Like black people There's...less unity, in the home and community. And therefore in the progress as a people. But it's been handed down, the families ripped apart by tragedy. Like slavery. I guess black people many didn't repair from that. Is it an excuse? No. But it's a reason.