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Sexism Row
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Original post by SmallTownGirl
If her academic and professional achievements are not 'impressive' then he doesn't need to talk to her on a PROFESSIONAL networking site.
How is it not a professional setting?
How is it not a professional setting?
He was paying her a compliment, it's not his fault she took it look a bitch.
It's a social media site, yes it is intended for professional relationships but by being a social media site it retains a degree of informality
Posted from TSR Mobile
Lol, check the lead article on the Daily Mail website, makes her look pretty hypocritical. She seems happy to comment on mens' looks!
Original post by TheWorldEndsWithYou
But is it sexist to call a woman "stunning"? Of course the way he spoke to her on a professional networking site was unwise but to say that he was being sexist just for paying her that compliment feels so overblown.
And then she had to make it public rather than simply be professional herself, ironically. It was enough to tell him he was being unprofessional and it was enough to make him apologise. Sometimes women just need to know to let things go, it didn't need to escalate so far.
And then she had to make it public rather than simply be professional herself, ironically. It was enough to tell him he was being unprofessional and it was enough to make him apologise. Sometimes women just need to know to let things go, it didn't need to escalate so far.
the thing is this happens to women on a daily basis - they are undermined as professionals on the basis of their looks or because they are women
without calling attention to individual events like this, if we just said 'oh thats not professional!' then it wont change peoples attitudes in general, its not over reacting when you look at the scale of the issue
Original post by Chief Wiggum
Lol, check the lead article on the Daily Mail website, makes her look pretty hypocritical. She seems happy to comment on mens' looks!
yeah but thats on the daily mail
Original post by Underscore__
He was paying her a compliment, it's not his fault she took it look a bitch.
It's a social media site, yes it is intended for professional relationships but by being a social media site it retains a degree of informality
Posted from TSR Mobile
It's a social media site, yes it is intended for professional relationships but by being a social media site it retains a degree of informality
Posted from TSR Mobile
But a lot of people don't see unsolicited and unwanted comments on their appearance as a compliment. The men who shout 'nice arse' or 'get your tits out' across the street at women and teenage girls think they're complimenting them but that doesn't mean it is one. Some men see sexual assault as a compliment: 'I just grabbed her bum, she should take it as a compliment'. It's not his right (or yours) to decide what someone else sees as a compliment. From birth girls and women are taught that their worth in society is based on their appearance and their relationships with men. They are told they need to look a certain way to be 'popular' and 'successful'. People feel they have the right to comment on women's bodies in any way they want to. A lifetime of 'Eat-up, you're far too thin.' or 'Are you sure you want that piece of cake? You'd look much better if you lost a few pounds.'; 'That skirts too short, everyone will think you're easy.' or 'Don't you want to wear something more flattering? That's quite frumpy.' will drive you mad.
Original post by citydeer
the thing is this happens to women on a daily basis - they are undermined as professionals on the basis of their looks or because they are women
without calling attention to individual events like this, if we just said 'oh thats not professional!' then it wont change peoples attitudes in general, its not over reacting when you look at the scale of the issue
without calling attention to individual events like this, if we just said 'oh thats not professional!' then it wont change peoples attitudes in general, its not over reacting when you look at the scale of the issue
Please use punctuation.
Original post by citydeer
yeah but thats on the daily mail
She still made these comments.
Lol this was a massive article in the London Evening Standard
The woman has a point, it is inappropriate to make a comment on her physical appearance within that context and had she been a man, it probably would not have happened.
The woman has a point, it is inappropriate to make a comment on her physical appearance within that context and had she been a man, it probably would not have happened.
Original post by SmallTownGirl
But a lot of people don't see unsolicited and unwanted comments on their appearance as a compliment. The men who shout 'nice arse' or 'get your tits out' across the street at women and teenage girls think they're complimenting them but that doesn't mean it is one. Some men see sexual assault as a compliment: 'I just grabbed her bum, she should take it as a compliment'. It's not his right (or yours) to decide what someone else sees as a compliment. From birth girls and women are taught that their worth in society is based on their appearance and their relationships with men. They are told they need to look a certain way to be 'popular' and 'successful'. People feel they have the right to comment on women's bodies in any way they want to. A lifetime of 'Eat-up, you're far too thin.' or 'Are you sure you want that piece of cake? You'd look much better if you lost a few pounds.'; 'That skirts too short, everyone will think you're easy.' or 'Don't you want to wear something more flattering? That's quite frumpy.' will drive you mad.
The difference is that's a lewd compliment, occasionally made to underage girls but it is still a compliment.
Sexual assault is also very different, it's a crime.
I disagree with your last point; women who are bimbo's are being more and more criticised for their idiocy and intelligent, academic women are being increasingly celebrated. Even if it were true that women were taught that their value comes from their appearance is that not also (at least partially) the fault of women? Women write celeb magazine articles about attractive female celebrities who are happy to be celebrated for their body
Original post by The Free Radical
Lol this was a massive article in the London Evening Standard
The woman has a point, it is inappropriate to make a comment on her physical appearance within that context and had she been a man, it probably would not have happened.
The woman has a point, it is inappropriate to make a comment on her physical appearance within that context and had she been a man, it probably would not have happened.
Likely because the man isn't a homosexual. Is it sexist that he would have sex with a woman but not a man?
(edited 8 years ago)
I think this story sounds stupid without context, but if you actually bothered to look into it, you can see why she was offended.
She wasn't insulted that she'd been complimented, but insulted that a professional barrister had sent her an email which began with "I appreciate that this is probably horrendously politically incorrect but that is a stunning picture!!!"
In a professional environment, I don't think what he sent her was appropriate - compliment someone, fine, but don't make that your starting point when addressing someone on LinkedIn in a highly regarded profession. In addition, she called this one person out because he was regarded as a big figure, to encourage other women to call men out for being sexist.
He knew that it wasn't the correct commend to make in that situation, and sent it anyway, because he believed that she wouldn't speak out against it - despite the fact she's fought against FGM and many other misogynistic issues. I think he was the shallow one for believing she'd put up with it.
Source: http://www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/women-are-calling-out-sexist-linkedin-users-after-this-barri?bffbuk&utm_term=4ldqphz#4ldqphz
She wasn't insulted that she'd been complimented, but insulted that a professional barrister had sent her an email which began with "I appreciate that this is probably horrendously politically incorrect but that is a stunning picture!!!"
In a professional environment, I don't think what he sent her was appropriate - compliment someone, fine, but don't make that your starting point when addressing someone on LinkedIn in a highly regarded profession. In addition, she called this one person out because he was regarded as a big figure, to encourage other women to call men out for being sexist.
He knew that it wasn't the correct commend to make in that situation, and sent it anyway, because he believed that she wouldn't speak out against it - despite the fact she's fought against FGM and many other misogynistic issues. I think he was the shallow one for believing she'd put up with it.
Source: http://www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/women-are-calling-out-sexist-linkedin-users-after-this-barri?bffbuk&utm_term=4ldqphz#4ldqphz
Find this totally ridiculous
Speaking to my dad, in his 60's now, he said in the modern age, he has stopped opening doors for women and other such act once considered chivalrous for fear of being labelled as a pervert, one incident he held the door open on the tube for a women to get on board, instead to be screamed at for being a pervert, pronouncing her membership of the Women's liberation front.
In such incidents like these that I despair. Sexism exists, but how on earth can inequality be challenged when minor inappropriate comments (certainly ill advised) result in a public humiliation and vilification.
If feminists feel this is a woman 1-0 Man situation, I shudder how one could be so stupid.
Speaking to my dad, in his 60's now, he said in the modern age, he has stopped opening doors for women and other such act once considered chivalrous for fear of being labelled as a pervert, one incident he held the door open on the tube for a women to get on board, instead to be screamed at for being a pervert, pronouncing her membership of the Women's liberation front.
In such incidents like these that I despair. Sexism exists, but how on earth can inequality be challenged when minor inappropriate comments (certainly ill advised) result in a public humiliation and vilification.
If feminists feel this is a woman 1-0 Man situation, I shudder how one could be so stupid.
[QUOTE
=SmallTownGirl;59270057] The men who shout 'nice arse' or 'get your tits out' across the street at women and teenage girls think they're complimenting them but that doesn't mean it is one.
Are they ****. Those aren't compliments hahahaaha! Pretty sure the men know it's not a compliment too.
A compliment would "You're looking beautiful today" or "Have you done something to your hair?".
[QUOTE=SmallTownGirl;59270057]
Some men see sexual assault as a compliment
Sexual assault? What? In no way is that ever a compliment... ever. It's about power, not pleasing a woman.
[QUOTE=SmallTownGirl;59270057]
It's not his right (or yours) to decide what someone else sees as a compliment
Saying "You look beautiful today" IS a compliment, whether you like it or not.
[QUOTE=SmallTownGirl;59270057]
. From birth girls and women are taught that their worth in society is based on their appearance and their relationships with men.
No they ****ing don't
[QUOTE=SmallTownGirl;59270057]
They are told they need to look a certain way to be 'popular' and 'successful'.
[QUOTE=SmallTownGirl;59270057]
People feel they have the right to comment on women's bodies in any way they want to.
Most of the time it's not in a bad way.
[QUOTE=SmallTownGirl;59270057]
A lifetime of 'Eat-up, you're far too thin.' or 'Are you sure you want that piece of cake? You'd look much better if you lost a few pounds.';
Men get this too. By your mid 30s to 40s, you won't have to worry about this any more though
=SmallTownGirl;59270057] The men who shout 'nice arse' or 'get your tits out' across the street at women and teenage girls think they're complimenting them but that doesn't mean it is one.Are they ****. Those aren't compliments hahahaaha! Pretty sure the men know it's not a compliment too.
A compliment would "You're looking beautiful today" or "Have you done something to your hair?".
[QUOTE
=SmallTownGirl;59270057]Some men see sexual assault as a compliment
Sexual assault? What? In no way is that ever a compliment... ever. It's about power, not pleasing a woman.
[QUOTE
=SmallTownGirl;59270057]It's not his right (or yours) to decide what someone else sees as a compliment
Saying "You look beautiful today" IS a compliment, whether you like it or not.
[QUOTE
=SmallTownGirl;59270057]. From birth girls and women are taught that their worth in society is based on their appearance and their relationships with men.
No they ****ing don't
[QUOTE
=SmallTownGirl;59270057]They are told they need to look a certain way to be 'popular' and 'successful'.
[QUOTE
=SmallTownGirl;59270057]People feel they have the right to comment on women's bodies in any way they want to.
Most of the time it's not in a bad way.
[QUOTE
=SmallTownGirl;59270057]A lifetime of 'Eat-up, you're far too thin.' or 'Are you sure you want that piece of cake? You'd look much better if you lost a few pounds.';
Men get this too. By your mid 30s to 40s, you won't have to worry about this any more though
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Underscore__
Likely because the man isn't a homosexual. Is it sexist that he would have sex with a woman but not a man?
Likely because the man isn't a homosexual. Is it sexist that he would have sex with a woman but not a man?
You're missing the point.
It's completely inappropriate to make sexually charged comments towards a stranger within a professional context and it shows just how badly adjusted many guys are to think this is ok.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by alex0110
In such incidents like these that I despair. Sexism exists, but how on earth can inequality be challenged when minor inappropriate comments (certainly ill advised) result in a public humiliation and vilification.
In such incidents like these that I despair. Sexism exists, but how on earth can inequality be challenged when minor inappropriate comments (certainly ill advised) result in a public humiliation and vilification.
I totally accept that many women can behave way out of line, especially when men are kind enough to open doors, etc - but she called out the barrister in order to encourage other women to call men out. It's not the only issue she's been campaigning for, either - she's also dealt in campaigning for awareness of FGM, and other issues.
Original post by The Free Radical
It's completely inappropriate to make sexually charged comments towards a stranger with in a professional context and it shows just how badly adjusted many guys are to think this is ok.
Unfortunately there are always going to be idiots in the world, and women who claim 'sexism' to get their way. That isn't right, and certainly isn't feminism.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by alex0110
Find this totally ridiculous
Speaking to my dad, in his 60's now, he said in the modern age, he has stopped opening doors for women and other such act once considered chivalrous for fear of being labelled as a pervert, one incident he held the door open on the tube for a women to get on board, instead to be screamed at for being a pervert, pronouncing her membership of the Women's liberation front.
In such incidents like these that I despair. Sexism exists, but how on earth can inequality be challenged when minor inappropriate comments (certainly ill advised) result in a public humiliation and vilification.
If feminists feel this is a woman 1-0 Man situation, I shudder how one could be so stupid.
Speaking to my dad, in his 60's now, he said in the modern age, he has stopped opening doors for women and other such act once considered chivalrous for fear of being labelled as a pervert, one incident he held the door open on the tube for a women to get on board, instead to be screamed at for being a pervert, pronouncing her membership
of the Women's liberation front.In such incidents like these that I despair. Sexism exists, but how on earth can inequality be challenged when minor inappropriate comments (certainly ill advised) result in a public humiliation and vilification.
If feminists feel this is a woman 1-0 Man situation, I shudder how one could be so stupid.
I was in Amsterdam a couple weeks ago. I was walking towards Amsterdam Centraal and this woman dropped her umbrella. She was pushing her bike, so I decided to pick the umbrella up for her.
She didn't say anything... no thank you, no nothing... not even a ****ing smile.
For those who are dutch and think I don't know how to say thank you:
"Bedankt" or "Dank u wel". She didn't say a thing.
Probably felt I was a con artist or rapist or something evil.
QUOTE=memoriial;59270503]I totally accept that many women can behave way out of line, especially when men are kind enough to open doors, etc - but she called out the barrister in order to encourage other women to call men out. It's not the only issue she's been campaigning for, either - she's also dealt in campaigning for awareness of FGM, and other issues.
Unfortunately there are always going to be idiots in the world, and women who claim 'sexism' to get their way. That isn't right, and certainly isn't feminism.
But it's not something to call out on National TV, is it.
Someone pointed this out before, but all that was needed in this incident was the email she sent to him afterwards - that's it, nothing more, nothing less.
Instead she showed her own unprofessionalism and went on a hissy fit about how this affects all women, which it ****ing doesn't. She's belittling the women who go through a whole year without this toss.
She's just claimed her 10 seconds of fame.
Good for her and her other 'campaigns' but I jolly well hope she crawls back into her ****hole... I don't want to see her mug ever again in the news.
Feminism, at least third wave, is dead.
=memoriial;59270503]I totally accept that many women can behave way out of line, especially when men are kind enough to open doors, etc - but she called out the barrister in order to encourage other women to call men out. It's not the only issue she's been campaigning for, either - she's also dealt in campaigning for awareness of FGM, and other issues.Unfortunately there are always going to be idiots in the world, and women who claim 'sexism' to get their way. That isn't right, and certainly isn't feminism.
But it's not something to call out on National TV, is it.
Someone pointed this out before, but all that was needed in this incident was the email she sent to him afterwards - that's it, nothing more, nothing less.
Instead she showed her own unprofessionalism and went on a hissy fit about how this affects all women, which it ****ing doesn't. She's belittling the women who go through a whole year without this toss.
She's just claimed her 10 seconds of fame.
Good for her and her other 'campaigns' but I jolly well hope she crawls back into her ****hole... I don't want to see her mug ever again in the news.
Feminism, at least third wave, is dead.
Original post by VotreAltesse
Perhaps not, but how did it get to National TV? She originally tweeted it. If newstations then asked her in for interviews, etc - that's not her fault.
If she deliberately tried to get to national news over the email, then that's a different story because no, I don't think doing that is appropriate either.
Original post by The Free Radical
You're missing the point.
It's completely inappropriate to make sexually charged comments towards a stranger with in a professional context and it shows just how badly adjusted many guys are to think this is ok.
It's completely
inappropriate to make sexually charged comments towards a stranger with in a professional context and it shows just how badly adjusted many guys are to think this is ok.I hardly consider 'stunning' to be sexual
... whereas 'hot stuff' is slightly more carnal.She's a walking hypocrite.
I am not, I repeat not, defending the old man... but it's very likely it was purely a compliment - sure an innappropriate one based on the situation, but it didn't need this whole "OMG SEXIST MISOGYNISTIC PIG" crap.
Original post by VotreAltesse
I hardly consider 'stunning' to be sexual ... whereas 'hot stuff' is slightly more carnal.
She's a walking hypocrite.
I am not, I repeat not, defending the old man... but it's very likely it was purely a compliment - sure an innappropriate one based on the situation, but it didn't need this whole "OMG SEXIST MISOGYNISTIC PIG" crap.
... whereas 'hot stuff' is slightly more carnal.She's a walking hypocrite.
I am not, I repeat not, defending the old man... but it's very likely it was purely a compliment - sure an innappropriate one based on the situation, but it didn't need this whole "OMG SEXIST MISOGYNISTIC PIG" crap.
Why does he feel the need to compliment a female coworker on her appearance?
Her appearance has zero relevance to her ability to effectively perform her job.
QUOTE=memoriial;59270619]Perhaps not, but how did it get to National TV? She originally tweeted it. If newstations then asked her in for interviews, etc - that's not her fault.
If she deliberately tried to get to national news over the email, then that's a different story because no, I don't think doing that is appropriate either.[ QUOTE]
Don't make me laugh, she had and has the right to turn the interviews down.
She was likely aiming for just that: fame for a couple of days. She could be narcisstic.
This whole thing is a ****ing joke, from both parties.
=memoriial;59270619]Perhaps not, but how did it get to National TV? She originally tweeted it. If newstations then asked her in for interviews, etc - that's not her fault.If she deliberately tried to get to national news over the email, then that's a different story because no, I don't think doing that is appropriate either.[ QUOTE
]Don't make me laugh, she had and has the right to turn the interviews down.
She was likely aiming for just that: fame for a couple of days. She could be narcisstic.
This whole thing is a ****ing joke, from both parties.
Original post by memoriial
'It's completely inappropriate to make sexually charged comments towards a stranger with in a professional context and it shows just how badly adjusted many guys are to think this is ok.'
My personal feelings, the comments were not particularly sexually charged, in fact these would have been considered chivalrous in a previous decade. Furthermore the fact she has campaigned is both relevant and irrelevant. Irrelevant in the sense that the comments were not 'sexually charged' (stunning pic hardly translates to wanna bang me for a promotion). No doubt ill advised
This brings me to my second point. As a 57 year old barrister, I find he is a scapegoat, an easy scalp for feminism. It is critical to understand that men of this age (I know more than most, I have the most technologically inept father at home) they don't know better. Their is a lack of online etiquette, a lack of understanding of what would be considered latter 20th century/ early 21st century movements promoting feminism. My point being, a 57 year old lawyer, specializing in corporate law who even sent comments to his own daughters Linkedin proves the point that he is clearly a man of ilk from decades previous. Wouldn't surprise me if he had no facebook account (of face space as dad calls it)
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