Is Jeremy Corbyn more left-wing than the SNP?
Why do you think Jeremy Corbyn is more left-wing than the SNP?
Who thinks the SNP speak a left-wing agenda but act more right-wing than left-wing?
Why is there so much "don't rock the boat" stuff going on from the SNP?
Why do the SNP not want Scotland to be a modern democratic socialist republic and ditch the monarchy the UK pound as well as its membership of the EU and NATO? Does anybody think Scotland would have voted to leave the Union last year had they advocated all these proposals to make Scotland a new country?
Shouldn't the SNP argue for what Scotland doesn't have rather than just argue for a mini United Kingdom?
If I am completely honest I voted Yes in the referendum last year but since then the SNP are really beginning to annoy me. There is so many radical things they can do now without independence for example scrap the council tax and bring a much fairer more progressive system such as a local income tax or Scottish Service Tax if you are a member of the Scottish Socialist Party.
Why do you think that people in Scotland are frightened of socialism? Are they actually frightened of socialism or are they just following the SNP?
Who thinks the SNP speak a left-wing agenda but act more right-wing than left-wing?
Why is there so much "don't rock the boat" stuff going on from the SNP?
Why do the SNP not want Scotland to be a modern democratic socialist republic and ditch the monarchy the UK pound as well as its membership of the EU and NATO? Does anybody think Scotland would have voted to leave the Union last year had they advocated all these proposals to make Scotland a new country?
Shouldn't the SNP argue for what Scotland doesn't have rather than just argue for a mini United Kingdom?
If I am completely honest I voted Yes in the referendum last year but since then the SNP are really beginning to annoy me. There is so many radical things they can do now without independence for example scrap the council tax and bring a much fairer more progressive system such as a local income tax or Scottish Service Tax if you are a member of the Scottish Socialist Party.
Why do you think that people in Scotland are frightened of socialism? Are they actually frightened of socialism or are they just following the SNP?
Scroll to see replies
Original post by Choo.choo
Why do you think Jeremy Corbyn is more left-wing than the SNP?
Because Corbyn is an actual left-winger; the SNP are a nationalist party that will adopt whatever line they think is most likely to secure them the most votes.
Who thinks the SNP speak a left-wing agenda but act more right-wing than left-wing?
Me!
Why is there so much "don't rock the boat" stuff going on from the SNP?
Why do the SNP not want Scotland to be a modern democratic socialist republic and ditch the monarchy the UK pound as well as its membership of the EU and NATO?
Most people are at least somewhat content with the status quo, and there simply wasn't a big enough desire for independence. To offer a radically different version of Scotland might have scared even more away from it. So instead, the version that was offered was pretty much what we already have, except ruled by politicians based in Edinburgh as opposed to London.
Does anybody think Scotland would have voted to leave the Union last year had they advocated all these proposals to make Scotland a new country?
No, I think the Yes vote would have been even smaller.
If I am completely honest I voted Yes in the referendum last year but since then the SNP are really beginning to annoy me. There is so many radical things they can do now without independence for example scrap the council tax and bring a much fairer more progressive system such as a local income tax or Scottish Service Tax if you are a member of the Scottish Socialist Party.
It's not in the SNP's interest to make it widely known among Scots the true power they yield. If they were to make changes, what if people were to start holding them to account for said changes? What if people turned out to actually be quite satisfied with the current power Holyrood has?
Why do you think that people in Scotland are frightened of socialism? Are they actually frightened of socialism or are they just following the SNP?
People in the west generally don't want socialism; Scotland is no exception.
Hah! Look at the record of the SNP at Holyrood and you'll see that they are actually more right wing than the Labour party. Repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it, as we saw with the Scottish landslide at the last election with them some how being a 'left-wing' alternative.
Why do you think Jeremy Corbyn is more left-wing than the SNP? His commitment to more left wing economic policy, as well as support for re-nationalisation.
Who thinks the SNP speak a left-wing agenda but act more right-wing than left-wing? Me.
Why is there so much "don't rock the boat" stuff going on from the SNP? Because the status quo is currently working in favour of Scotland.
Why do the SNP not want Scotland to be a modern democratic socialist republic and ditch the monarchy the UK pound as well as its membership of the EU and NATO? Because neo-liberalism has been adopted by pretty much all the mainstream parties and those with power. The Monarchy still have the supporters in Scotland, especially in the Protestant community who the SNP have struggled to historically reach A Scottish pound would be a disaster. And leaving NATO would leave Scotland defenceless.
Does anybody think Scotland would have voted to leave the Union last year had they advocated all these proposals to make Scotland a new country? No, not by a long shot. The pensioners would have been even more frightened by a Yes vote.
If I am completely honest I voted Yes in the referendum last year but since then the SNP are really beginning to annoy me. There is so many radical things they can do now without independence for example scrap the council tax and bring a much fairer more progressive system such as a local income tax or Scottish Service Tax if you are a member of the Scottish Socialist Party. Yes but that would increase their deficit, and as fiscal conservatives they are pretty on the ball with decreased spending and keeping tax on working people at it's current rate.
Why do you think that people in Scotland are frightened of socialism? Are they actually frightened of socialism or are they just following the SNP? Lack of class consciousness, along with previous fiascos and disasters under socialist governments.
Why do you think Jeremy Corbyn is more left-wing than the SNP? His commitment to more left wing economic policy, as well as support for re-nationalisation.
Who thinks the SNP speak a left-wing agenda but act more right-wing than left-wing? Me.
Why is there so much "don't rock the boat" stuff going on from the SNP? Because the status quo is currently working in favour of Scotland.
Why do the SNP not want Scotland to be a modern democratic socialist republic and ditch the monarchy the UK pound as well as its membership of the EU and NATO? Because neo-liberalism has been adopted by pretty much all the mainstream parties and those with power. The Monarchy still have the supporters in Scotland, especially in the Protestant community who the SNP have struggled to historically reach A Scottish pound would be a disaster. And leaving NATO would leave Scotland defenceless.
Does anybody think Scotland would have voted to leave the Union last year had they advocated all these proposals to make Scotland a new country? No, not by a long shot. The pensioners would have been even more frightened by a Yes vote.
If I am completely honest I voted Yes in the referendum last year but since then the SNP are really beginning to annoy me. There is so many radical things they can do now without independence for example scrap the council tax and bring a much fairer more progressive system such as a local income tax or Scottish Service Tax if you are a member of the Scottish Socialist Party. Yes but that would increase their deficit, and as fiscal conservatives they are pretty on the ball with decreased spending and keeping tax on working people at it's current rate.
Why do you think that people in Scotland are frightened of socialism? Are they actually frightened of socialism or are they just following the SNP? Lack of class consciousness, along with previous fiascos and disasters under socialist governments.
Original post by Smack
Because Corbyn is an actual left-winger; the SNP are a nationalist party that will adopt whatever line they think is most likely to secure them the most votes.
Me!
Most people are at least somewhat content with the status quo, and there simply wasn't a big enough desire for independence. To offer a radically different version of Scotland might have scared even more away from it. So instead, the version that was offered was pretty much what we already have, except ruled by politicians based in Edinburgh as opposed to London.
No, I think the Yes vote would have been even smaller.
It's not in the SNP's interest to make it widely known among Scots the true power they yield. If they were to make changes, what if people were to start holding them to account for said changes? What if people turned out to actually be quite satisfied with the current power Holyrood has?
People in the west generally don't want socialism; Scotland is no exception.
Me!
Most people are at least somewhat content with the status quo, and there simply wasn't a big enough desire for independence. To offer a radically different version of Scotland might have scared even more away from it. So instead, the version that was offered was pretty much what we already have, except ruled by politicians based in Edinburgh as opposed to London.
No, I think the Yes vote would have been even smaller.
It's not in the SNP's interest to make it widely known among Scots the true power they yield. If they were to make changes, what if people were to start holding them to account for said changes? What if people turned out to actually be quite satisfied with the current power Holyrood has?
People in the west generally don't want socialism; Scotland is no exception.
So what party do you want to see govern Scotland? RISE? SSP? Greens? Labour? Tory? I just don't get why so many people are sucked in by the SNP. It is only over the last year that I see the fundamental changes that can be made to tackle the deep structural inequalities that scar our society that the SNP are fully aware they can fix and yet do nothing. Then look at their record in government too.
Original post by Swanbow
Hah! Look at the record of the SNP at Holyrood and you'll see that they are actually more right wing than the Labour party. Repeat a lie often enough and people will believe it, as we saw with the Scottish landslide at the last election with them some how being a 'left-wing' alternative.
Why do you think Jeremy Corbyn is more left-wing than the SNP? His commitment to more left wing economic policy, as well as support for re-nationalisation.
Who thinks the SNP speak a left-wing agenda but act more right-wing than left-wing? Me.
Why is there so much "don't rock the boat" stuff going on from the SNP? Because the status quo is currently working in favour of Scotland.
Why do the SNP not want Scotland to be a modern democratic socialist republic and ditch the monarchy the UK pound as well as its membership of the EU and NATO? Because neo-liberalism has been adopted by pretty much all the mainstream parties and those with power. The Monarchy still have the supporters in Scotland, especially in the Protestant community who the SNP have struggled to historically reach A Scottish pound would be a disaster. And leaving NATO would leave Scotland defenceless.
Does anybody think Scotland would have voted to leave the Union last year had they advocated all these proposals to make Scotland a new country? No, not by a long shot. The pensioners would have been even more frightened by a Yes vote.
If I am completely honest I voted Yes in the referendum last year but since then the SNP are really beginning to annoy me. There is so many radical things they can do now without independence for example scrap the council tax and bring a much fairer more progressive system such as a local income tax or Scottish Service Tax if you are a member of the Scottish Socialist Party. Yes but that would increase their deficit, and as fiscal conservatives they are pretty on the ball with decreased spending and keeping tax on working people at it's current rate.
Why do you think that people in Scotland are frightened of socialism? Are they actually frightened of socialism or are they just following the SNP? Lack of class consciousness, along with previous fiascos and disasters under socialist governments.
Why do you think Jeremy Corbyn is more left-wing than the SNP? His commitment to more left wing economic policy, as well as support for re-nationalisation.
Who thinks the SNP speak a left-wing agenda but act more right-wing than left-wing? Me.
Why is there so much "don't rock the boat" stuff going on from the SNP? Because the status quo is currently working in favour of Scotland.
Why do the SNP not want Scotland to be a modern democratic socialist republic and ditch the monarchy the UK pound as well as its membership of the EU and NATO? Because neo-liberalism has been adopted by pretty much all the mainstream parties and those with power. The Monarchy still have the supporters in Scotland, especially in the Protestant community who the SNP have struggled to historically reach A Scottish pound would be a disaster. And leaving NATO would leave Scotland defenceless.
Does anybody think Scotland would have voted to leave the Union last year had they advocated all these proposals to make Scotland a new country? No, not by a long shot. The pensioners would have been even more frightened by a Yes vote.
If I am completely honest I voted Yes in the referendum last year but since then the SNP are really beginning to annoy me. There is so many radical things they can do now without independence for example scrap the council tax and bring a much fairer more progressive system such as a local income tax or Scottish Service Tax if you are a member of the Scottish Socialist Party. Yes but that would increase their deficit, and as fiscal conservatives they are pretty on the ball with decreased spending and keeping tax on working people at it's current rate.
Why do you think that people in Scotland are frightened of socialism? Are they actually frightened of socialism or are they just following the SNP? Lack of class consciousness, along with previous fiascos and disasters under socialist governments.
You are wrong that a local income tax would increase the fiscal deficit. A local income tax would double the income that is currently collected by the Scottish Government. And a local income tax is based on ability to pay whereas council tax is not. I do want Scotland to start putting people first and renationalise the railways the national grid and we should argue to project peace on the world stage rather than imperialism and we should have human security rather than state security. I personally don't believe the status quo is working. Look at the damage that Westminster are doing to Scotland and which the SNP are just passing on when they come from London. How do socialist governments damage countries? Are you saying the Nordic model used in the Scandinavian countries is damaging to them? Quite the contrary. People there are among the happiest people in the world despite the high taxes. The SNP could set up a National Investment Bank and invest in people and the country's infrastructure and also set up a not-for-profit local authority banking sector in Scotland too. I could go on about all the other things they could do.
Original post by Choo.choo
You are wrong that a local income tax would increase the fiscal deficit. A local income tax would double the income that is currently collected by the Scottish Government. And a local income tax is based on ability to pay whereas council tax is not. I do want Scotland to start putting people first and renationalise the railways the national grid and we should argue to project peace on the world stage rather than imperialism and we should have human security rather than state security. I personally don't believe the status quo is working. Look at the damage that Westminster are doing to Scotland and which the SNP are just passing on when they come from London. How do socialist governments damage countries? Are you saying the Nordic model used in the Scandinavian countries is damaging to them? Quite the contrary. People there are among the happiest people in the world despite the high taxes. The SNP could set up a National Investment Bank and invest in people and the country's infrastructure and also set up a not-for-profit local authority banking sector in Scotland too. I could go on about all the other things they could do.
Ohh right, I thought you just meant abolish council tax. A local income tax could work, but in reality just raising the standard income rates would bring enough revenue to cover the loss of council tax. A local income tax, if devolved to local authorities would probably be a disaster, most councils struggle to collect the bins and fix the roads never mind collect collect an income tax.
I agree with nationalising the railways and the national grid/powerplants, but I'd rather it was done on a state level than by a regional assembly. Very likely for Westminster to stand against it and make life a nightmare for the Scottish Parliament if they wanted to press ahead with it. What I meant is that the status quo as it stands is working better for Scotland than Wales, or most regions in England. Hence the SNP know they have a better deal, and don't really want to push their luck.
Well depending on what type of socialism, it can very well lead to economic ruin. The Nordic model is a favoured one, however both Norway and Sweden are more productive than us, and Norway in particular has the good fortune to be sitting on a mass of natural resources, the tax revenue from which has been invested wisely. A national investment bank isn't a bad idea, but at the moment the oil industry is at a heavy down turn, and various tax breaks have been introduced, so if sourced from oil revenue entirely it wouldn't make much. And likewise as Scotland doesn't have a budget surplus they would be borrowing to invest, and as a Keynesian I don't really believe it is the right time to do so. I doubt a not-for-profit local authority banking sector would be welcomed by the financial sector in Scotland, which like it or not contributes too vastly to Scotland's GPD, to piss off especially when they can easily transfer to England.
Obviously you care about these things, and I'd suggest getting involved in the SNP to try bring these things through. At the grass roots level the party is far more left than it's leadership, but unfortunately what seems to be blind loyalty has prevented them from taking the leadership to task over it. Who knows, the SNP might have their Jeremy Corbyn moment at some point.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Smack
It's not in the SNP's interest to make it widely known among Scots the true power they yield. If they were to make changes, what if people were to start holding them to account for said changes? What if people turned out to actually be quite satisfied with the current power Holyrood has?
It's not in the SNP's interest to make it widely known among Scots the true power they yield. If they were to make changes, what if people were to start holding them to account for said changes? What if people turned out to actually be quite satisfied with the current power Holyrood has?
Don't you think that the corporation tax cut they would give big business and keeping the Queen and the pound were all about pleasing people who like these things? Don't you think the corporation tax cut was aimed at winning over business leaders or the rich and powerful to the Yes side? So as you say their policies are based on what they think is likely to get them the most votes?
Original post by Choo.choo
So what party do you want to see govern Scotland? RISE? SSP? Greens? Labour? Tory? I just don't get why so many people are sucked in by the SNP. It is only over the last year that I see the fundamental changes that can be made to tackle the deep structural inequalities that scar our society that the SNP are fully aware they can fix and yet do nothing. Then look at their record in government too.
You've only just realised in the last 12 months that the SNP do nothing? I've known since the got into power in 2007.
They've done nothing but blame others rather than act and introduced populist policies that shaft the poorest members of society.
Original post by Choo.choo
You are wrong that a local income tax would increase the fiscal deficit. A local income tax would double the income that is currently collected by the Scottish Government. And a local income tax is based on ability to pay whereas council tax is not. I do want Scotland to start putting people first and renationalise the railways the national grid and we should argue to project peace on the world stage rather than imperialism and we should have human security rather than state security. I personally don't believe the status quo is working. Look at the damage that Westminster are doing to Scotland and which the SNP are just passing on when they come from London. How do socialist governments damage countries? Are you saying the Nordic model used in the Scandinavian countries is damaging to them? Quite the contrary. People there are among the happiest people in the world despite the high taxes. The SNP could set up a National Investment Bank and invest in people and the country's infrastructure and also set up a not-for-profit local authority banking sector in Scotland too. I could go on about all the other things they could do.
What damage is Westminster doing to Scotland? Being part of the fastest growing economy in Europe? Ia that hurting us?
You've obviously chosen to ignore the lies the snp told in the run up to the referendum. You may want to try reading up on North Sea oil revenues.
The SNP are basically the 05 Lib Dems but nationalists. They have a lot of socialist members but they cast a wide net because their aim is independence, not just government.
Corbyn is much closer to the 15 Greens. He's an extreme social Democrat with exceptionally extreme social policies like getting rid of part of the union, of getting rid of overseas territory, of leaving NATO and of wanting the monarchy gone.
The SNP have nothing on Corbyn although he'd probably be happy to work with them.
Corbyn is much closer to the 15 Greens. He's an extreme social Democrat with exceptionally extreme social policies like getting rid of part of the union, of getting rid of overseas territory, of leaving NATO and of wanting the monarchy gone.
The SNP have nothing on Corbyn although he'd probably be happy to work with them.
Original post by MatureStudent36
You've only just realised in the last 12 months that the SNP do nothing?
Original post by MatureStudent36
I've known since the got into power in 2007.
Original post by MatureStudent36
They've done nothing but blame others rather than act and introduced populist policies that shaft the poorest members of society.
It really annoys me that people think introducing another party to replace the Labour party and to the left of the SNP wont help the cause of independence and will "split" the vote for independence. What is wrong with the proposals set out by the new left party RISE? They are arguing for policies that people would support, with maybe the exception of environmentalism, for example, a republic for Scotland, challenging the rich and powerful and so on.... And the SNP could challenge the structural inequalities in Scotland like trying to make the country more inclusive of LGBT (a campaign called TIE) and end discrimination in all sections of our society.
What I don't get about the rhetoric from Sturgeon is that she willing to be inclusive when it comes to letting migrants come here from overseas but isn't so willing to challenge the other structural inequalities that would make Scotland more inclusive, like feminism and so on...but this probably goes back to what Smack said is that they just say certain things if they think it will get them votes.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Choo.choo
Don't you think that the corporation tax cut they would give big business and keeping the Queen and the pound were all about pleasing people who like these things? Don't you think the corporation tax cut was aimed at winning over business leaders or the rich and powerful to the Yes side? So as you say their policies are based on what they think is likely to get them the most votes?
Yes.
Original post by Choo.choo
I wonder if Labour will lurch to the left at Holyrood too now? Will people switch to Labour from SNP? (I doubt they will switch). But Corbyn is a unionist and does not favour further devolution of power. But then the SNP could use the power they have now to change things.
People never really switched from labour to the SNP. All that happened in the recent GE was that labour voters didn't bother voting and SNP supporters carried on voting.
The SNP are not really left wing.
Original post by MatureStudent36
People never really switched from labour to the SNP. All that happened in the recent GE was that labour voters didn't bother voting and SNP supporters carried on voting.
What makes you so sure? People see the SNP as the vehicle to independence as what other party is there that can deliver that? I personally dislike the SNP but Scotland wont achieve independence without the SNP.
Original post by Little Toy Gun
The SNP are not really left wing.
Original post by Choo.choo
No they are not. The White Paper was pretty good with the exception of a few major failures such as the corporation tax cut, the privatised energy market they wanted to keep intact and share with the rest of the UK and the failed commercial banking sector that Britain has.
You thought the white paper was good?
It was full of uncosted and poorly thought out aspirational drivel.
Original post by MatureStudent36
You thought the white paper was good?
It was full of uncosted and poorly thought out aspirational drivel.
It was full of uncosted and poorly thought out aspirational drivel.
The case for independence wasn't good but there were a few good things in the White Paper. An example of something good in the White Paper was the proposal to create a high wage economy which is a real shift away from the low wage economy of the UK. I just mentioned some examples of some major points they got wrong. There are others. And it was anything but radical.
Original post by Choo.choo
The case for independence wasn't good but there were a few good things in the White Paper. An example of something good in the White Paper was the proposal to create a high wage economy which is a real shift away from the low wage economy of the UK. I just mentioned some examples of some major points they got wrong. There are others. And it was anything but radical.
The UK already has a high wage economy.
Were you not too bothered about the lies they printed in it?
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