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Differences working in scotland and england?

Hi

Has anyone had experience of working as a doctor in both countries as i'm interested to know what your thoughts are due to differences in healthcare as it is devolved. For example would you recommend working in england over scotland, i have a feeling that things are more advanced in england and will have better technology (for example in a good hospital im sure there are old bad ones too)

cheerss

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Reply 1

Ghotay

Original post by jooby92

This is... an odd thing to say. Scotland has large cities with large and advanced hospitals. The Edinburgh Royal is massive. I don't think the standard of care and technology is particularly different in urban Scotland to urban England. Rural Scotland may be a slightly different matter, but I'll refrain from comment as I don't know much about it. Scotland is actually a pretty big place and difficult to make sweeping generalisations about.

That said, I would love to hear from someone who has done Foundation in Scotland as I am interested in applying there myself. Particularly experiences in rural areas. I hear a lot of them provide free accommodation?

Reply 2

spacepirate-James

Original post by jooby92

i have a feeling that things are more advanced in england and will have better technology (for example in a good hospital im sure there are old bad ones too)

Yeah, we've only just discovered antibiotics last week. Turns out, pretty useful!

Reply 3

lekky

well in england you'll soon get paid 30% less for the same amount work so am I **** ever moving back

Reply 4

lekky

Original post by jooby92

you're right, Scotland is practically medieval. I'd recommend never setting foot if I was you

ie, get tae

Reply 5

jooby92

Sorry too late ive been in scotland for 18 years already im a 5th year in scotland,

In scotland money goes towards free parking, free prescriptions etc, surly thete will be some negatives to this decision as nothing is free, this is why i feel in england there wjll be more advanced, ive heard stuff like electronic prearcribing for example to resuce kardex errors, integration of alcial care etc, also it feels like scotland is a follower and not doing much pioneering in many aspects of medicine

Also there will not be a 30% decrease in pay in england, no need to promote false information

Reply 6

Ghotay

If you're hoping the grass will be greener on the other side you're going to be disappointed. Medicine is pretty shambolic no matter where you go. There are few highly specialist centres in London and Birmingham that might have things completely unavailable in Scotland, but otherwise I can't think of anything particularly 'advanced' about England. Electronic prescribing is being introduced in some areas, but I've never seen it personally. What else would you consider 'advanced'? My current hospital does robot-assisted prostatectomies... is that impressive?

Reply 7

Democracy

You don't get **** on by the Scottish government?

Reply 8

Democracy

Original post by jooby92

Also there will not be a 30% decrease in pay in england, no need to promote false information

Are those of us in England all experiencing the same delusion then? :confused:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/18/junior-doctors-new-contract-cut-pay-40-per-cent

Reply 9

Chief Wiggum

Original post by Democracy

Are those of us in England all experiencing the same delusion then? :confused:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/sep/18/junior-doctors-new-contract-cut-pay-40-per-cent

"they fear will cut their pay by up to 40%."

Doesn't sound like it's exactly a clear cut reduction in pay, otherwise the people quoted in the article wouldn't be using themselves as examples of the pay reduction - they'd just point to the black and white absolute reduction if there was one, surely?

Reply 10

Democracy

Original post by Chief Wiggum

That's because the contract isn't due to start until August 2016, but it will end up being a reduction in pay for everyone to some degree or another.

Reply 11

TheRabbit

There are differences in technology but these are driven by the fact the population is far smaller has a different distribution, meaning highly specialist services may not be cost effective or viable.

For example the disperse rural population in the highlands means that many people get thrombolysed with MIs, as they will not reach the cath lab in the time limit (often the ambulances relay the ECG to the ccu for advice). This seems old fashioned, and is a surprise to doctors new to the area, but is a matter of practicality.

I would imagine the technology available in the bigger urban centres (i.e. Glasgow and the central belt) is more comparable with down south.

Other less medical technologies are possibly used more, e.g. VC is used a lot in the highlands and islands for virtual clinics, to allow urgent assessment of paediatric or stroke patients and for teaching.

As an FY1/2 you are unlikely to be majorly affected by the different technologies (though will need to have an awareness of what your hospital offers), and as a trainee/consultant it will offer different challenges. The presence of less technology does not mean that there is no research and it is therefore pointless going there, but it may mean that research is taking a different approach looking at different areas more relevant to the facilities available in that hospital.

Reply 12

Wolfy^

Just to jump on the boat here, are there any massive differences between working as a doctor in Scotland as opposed to working as a doctor in England? And I don't mean the little things since those are already different between trusts in here.

Reply 13

jooby92

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/445742/50576_DDRB_report_2015_WEB_book.pdf

look at page 28 please which details a few scenarios of pay that they have suggested for the contract

Selecting the scenario C which was proposed regarding the changes that were mentioned in the article to the unsocial hours period(social hours up to 10pm and Saturday), this includes an increase in basic pay of 15.3%, so taking current basic pay of 22636 (as mentioned in article he earns about 31000 with banding) this would give a new basic pay of 26100, on top of this you will receive 50% for 10pm to 7am every day of the week, 33% for 7am to 10pm Sundays, but even without adding on any extra for these hours worked you would have a maximum 15.8% decrease (31000 to 26100) and this is only comparing the current banded pay v the basic pay of new contract, so this 15% will be even lower by working after 10pm and sundays

if you have a rota you can work it out what it would impact on you, ive heard that in some people they actually will be getting a pay rise should the changes go ahead, as mentioned in this thread 30% and the 40% mentioned in the article is pure bull,

Reply 14

jooby92

well ive asked if anyone has worked in both and no one seems to have yet, i feel you need to experience them both to give an opinion, as i said my impression of scotland is that it is a follower in terms of medicine, how often have you heard something being introduced down south that was pioneered in scotland, whereas alot of things that are done in england eventually find there way up in scotland a while later

Reply 15

spacepirate-James

Original post by jooby92

Glasgow coma scale? HPV vaccine? Beta-blockers? The MRI machine? How far do you want to go back?

Reply 16

LetoKynes

Original post by jooby92

It pretty much sounds like you've made up your decision already tbh.

Reply 17

jooby92

Original post by spacepirate-James

Glasgow coma scale? HPV vaccine? Beta-blockers? The MRI machine? How far do you want to go back?

I dont want to go far back i want recent things as i will be working in recent times, i checked about beta blockers and it seems he went to london to produce beta blockers which sort of emphasozes my point

This discussion is off topic, my impression is that in good hospitals in england with a good reputation the medical care will be better than in scotland where none stick out to me to be a very good hospital, and that is why im still waiting for someone who has worked in both to shed their opinion

Ive got a good academic score so providijg i dont mess up the sjt i should be able to get into a hospital with good reputation in england whereas in scotland id end up in edin or glas which are ok but i wouldnt say have overly good reputations

Reply 18

Lord Jon

Deep fried mars bars and munchy boxes... you'll probably deal with a lot more cardiacs up there.

Reply 19

seaholme

Original post by TheRabbit

For example the disperse rural population in the highlands means that many people get thrombolysed with MIs, as they will not reach the cath lab in the time limit (often the ambulances relay the ECG to the ccu for advice). This seems old fashioned, and is a surprise to doctors new to the area, but is a matter of practicality.