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The Liverpool FC Thread XIV

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Reply 560

leinad2012

Original post by Lúcio

Touché

Nah but serious, that isn't "taking the bait" :tongue:

Check the Arsenal thread for more obvious examples.

#tooeasy

to be fair to us no one has taken the bait he put on the arsenal thread. But then again I doubt Shawnio is up yet to tag in the mods about bullying and derailing the thread :colone:

Think you're right about the derby, you lose and things will get ugly, almost as ugly as what our club will be like at 6 o'clock the same day after we manage to lose to a daley Blind header from a cornor after Ozil pretends he's on the show Hunted on channel 4 (brilliant show btw would suggest watching) and tries to go missing/ into hiding for 90 minutes

Reply 561

leinad2012

Original post by Bubzeh

It is a shame to see what Liverpool have become. A selling club now. It's strange. This wouldn't have happened back in the good days (you know when boys).

I'm still trying to pinpoint exactly when it all went wrong for you guys. Woy was pretty horrendous as manager but Kenny mk2 was even worse. Can't really remember much before that tbh but even when you won the cl in 2005 your came 5th in the league didn't you? The cracks were already showing in the Rafa era then but from 2008 onwards it's gone from one embarrassment to another for you lot.

Reply 562

Mackay

Got back late last night, but it was more of the same. I was hoping for a change from the Carlisle match, but the only alteration was the atmosphere. It was less toxic, marginally.

The frustration was there - and the frustration, for me, is becoming all too clear. We have a load of 6/10 or 7/10 players, but we don't have anywhere near enough star or marquee quality. You shouldn't need it to get past Sion, of course. But we saw what a difference Sturridge made at the weekend. Everybody was lifted by playing with him, being around him, having his presence. Last night, we didn't have that.

Even playing Coutinho in a match like last night riled me, to be honest. If Rodgers isn't taking the competition seriously, and wants to use reserves, youth lads and a second-string XI, then Coutinho shouldn't be deployed before the derby.

Again, the similarities between the Carlisle and Bordeaux games were uncanny. We led, we were in control, the crowd eased... and then we conceded. After conceding, we have absolutely no character. We bottle it, the gameplan goes out of the window, and our players seem to **** themselves.

Nobody is willing to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. Nobody is expansive, inventive, probing. It's all too easy to see how Origi was voted in the worst Ligue I XI for last year. He does a lot of things very well, but that lack of composure in the final third is remarkable for a professional footballer. He reminds me a lot of Ngog, in truth, but even Ngog scored from ten yards or less. Origi just doesn't seem able to. Considering his age, and his background, it's remarkable that Martial boasts such a composure and cool-headedness in front of goal when Origi can't seem to do anything other than shake. He has decent attributes, but you can't teach a cutting edge or clinical eye.

Ings worked hard last night, but I can't help thinking that the Villa match - and again tonight - were games too far.

The lack of leaders is frightening, too. Lallana is either a yard of pace too slow, or too light. I thought he'd thrive without Gerrard in the side, but last night was exactly the type of game where he needs to become a captain. He should be talking to the front lads, coaching them through it. He should be blossoming in a captain-like role, but we're seeing the Liverpool effect on him. He looks scared witless at times. His goal was well taken, though, and it's always good to see him score.

Liverpool have allowed the opposition 11 shots in the last four games, and Mignolet has conceded 9. That's scandalous. He can't kick, his positioning from crosses and set-pieces is abysmal, but we've always said "but he's a good shot stopper". If he's not even doing that, what's the point? If you're a shot stopper, but you are fundamentally not stopping shots, I'm struggling to have sympathy. I actually don't think he has done any howlers recently, bar the Norwich equaliser, but he should do better - from a positioning standpoint - with both the Carlisle goal, and last night's equaliser.

Chuffed for Rossiter and Allen, who both looked good. I think Allen was poor for the Ings chance, because he didn't shoot. I was frustrated with that, but his general performance was great. He was peerless at times, actually. But it showed that he is not on the level required for changing stuff on his own. Rossiter really didn't do as well as the Bordeaux game, but you can put that down - perhaps - to the fact his mate was playing next to him, and they are confident in each other's presence and can tandem well.

Gomez is yards out of position for the first goal, but defenders will always make mistakes and we looked leaky and fallible in the back-line last night. Not until Sakho was introduced did we look composed and compact, in truth. Clyne and Moreno's substitution was signposted. It was clearly pre-planned, and they both got a half which was expected. The former wasn't great for the goal.

Did any of you lot have mates last season who said that Sterling going in the summer didn't matter "because we had Ibe"? Farcical. The kid looks shot of confidence, and a broken boy. He was woeful last night, and seems desperate not to **** up but he's in a never-ending cycle of - by not being brave enough - automatically ****ing up. Maybe last season helped because he came straight from being a Derby regular into the side, whereas this year he is getting time on the pitch in drips and drabs. He was dreadful going forward, so we can only see him in the side via a wing-back position and not in the diamond.

Reply 563

AsandaLFC

Original post by Bubzeh

It is a shame to see what Liverpool have become. A selling club now. It's strange. This wouldn't have happened back in the good days (you know when boys).

I called Coutinho to Madrid as soon as Rafa took over. I think if Rafa wins a trophy this season and stays on as manager, he'll be the number one target to replace Isco.

Or the number one target to replace iniesta

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Reply 564

Zerforax

Original post by sr90

Who would take Sturridge with his wages and injury record? Even if someone wanted him there's only 5 English clubs who can afford him. He's already been at Chelsea and City, he wouldn't join Arsenal or Spurs and you'd never do business with United.

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Well if no one is coming in for Sturridge then he might stay here? He's got a long contract so it's not like he can leave on a free easily. I'm a big fan so happy for him to stay.

Original post by AsandaLFC

Why was the 1st thread locked ?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Which 1st thread? This is the 14th LFC thread - every thread gets closed when they hit (or get close to) 10,000 posts.

On another note (off BBC):

More tough questions for Brendan Rodgers. Asked to give a verdict on his "judge me after three years" comment in 2012, he replies: "Not for me to judge. As the manager you will always have critics but it's not about me."

This is what happens when you have too much of a smart mouth. Comes to back to bite you in the ass.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 565

Mackay

Original post by Lúcio

That is literally the weakest baiting I've ever seen.

Like seriously, I'm more embarrassed for you than I am about the state of our defence...

Guy's comment in the Arsenal thread was the GOAT.

Reply 566

Zerforax

Original post by Mackay

PRSOM

I wonder if the atmosphere was less toxic because there were fewer regulars? Usually it's much easier to get a ticket to EL games without membership or with little previous games requirement. Boos sounded loud at the final whistle - did you boo? :colondollar:

Not only are they 6-7/10 players but most can't do one thing exceptionally well. You look at limited players like Crouch, Sissoko, Garcia etc but Rafa made the sum of the parts look great by playing to set strengths. Too many players who don't really offer anything in particular for us now.

You could see that Coutinho was on another level to everyone else. Maybe he thought 30 mins was enough to win it?

Origi looks like he should be playing on the flank of an attacking trio. I can't see him being good enough to play centrally with that terrible finishing ability. He did show a lot of good pace and footwork in patches though.

Lallana looks fantastic at times. If we had bought him for £10-15mil, I don't think he'd get so much flak since he should be a tidy squad player. Unfortunately we paid so much that he needs to be first XI quality..

Still amazed that we didn't buy an experienced number 2 in the summer to compete with Mignolet. Makes sense not to when your first choice GK is solid but we're not in that position.

I wasn't as impressed with Rossiter but maybe I'm being too critical. I thought he did everything well and simple but he always played the safe pass and often not the right pass. You can't just pass the responsibility to another player to create something. Obviously I don't expect every ball to be an assist but the vast majority of the time he just played the ball right or left to whoever was safe. I guess we'll see that improve over time with the first team.

Also where do we find these youngsters? Maybe it's the awful haircut (Gerrard's was pretty bad when he was young too) but him and Spearing make the local lads look a bit ****ed up.

Too much was hyped on Gomez after a couple of games. I think Rodgers is right to take him out of the PL side for now. It's odd because the 3-4-1-2 seems to get the best out of Moreno but Clyne suffers whereas the 4-3-3 makes Moreno look bad but Clyne looks great.

Yea Ibe was awful last night. Not sure what happened to all the confidence. Probably should've kept Markovic and sent Ibe on loan again.

Reply 567

Mackay

Original post by Zerforax

I wonder if the atmosphere was less toxic because there were fewer regulars? Usually it's much easier to get a ticket to EL games without membership or with little previous games requirement. Boos sounded loud at the final whistle - did you boo? :colondollar:

Original post by Zerforax

This is the issue for me, too. It really is summed up by Origi. You look at him up close in the flesh, and the lad is tall and physical and built. He has the attributes - physically, at least - to succeed. He can run, he's quick, he can even dribble and beat a man. He has no composure, though. He has no clinical edge, no ability to stamp down on an opponent's throat when they are vulnerable.

Similarly, Allen and Lallana are - technically - exceptionally gifted. The former is a stone too light, and the latter is a yard of pace too slow. It's these things which let them down at the elite level. Put them in a Swansea side, or Southampton, or Palace, and they'd be on the shortlist for the PFA Player of the Year because they would be indulged.

They wouldn't need a complete game. Players in mid-table sides don't. We've seen that with Shelvey, who perhaps best epitomises this. He has found his level at the Liberty Stadium, and I think we were absolutely right to get rid of him because he wouldn't have kicked on at Anfield. It wouldn't have happened.

Why? Because, like Ibe, he'd have got minutes and game time in bits and bobs. Half an hour here, a cameo there, a Europa League match here, 120 minutes in a Capital One Cup tie there. It wouldn't be good for his mentality, and I'm sure it isn't good for Ibe's.

Original post by Zerforax

Still amazed that we didn't buy an experienced number 2 in the summer to compete with Mignolet. Makes sense not to when your first choice GK is solid but we're not in that position.

It is farcical the more I think about it. I was pleased with the Milner signing, and delighted with Firmino's. I was apprehensive about the Benteke signing - perhaps wrongly - but Clyne was a solid bit of business, and I didn't even bat two eyelids at Gomez.

Bogdan, though? I watch a lot of lower league football, and there's even an argument for saying that he wasn't the best goalkeeper at Bolton last year given Lonergan's imperious form for Lennon's men.

Original post by Zerforax

I wasn't as impressed with Rossiter but maybe I'm being too critical. I thought he did everything well and simple but he always played the safe pass and often not the right pass. You can't just pass the responsibility to another player to create something. Obviously I don't expect every ball to be an assist but the vast majority of the time he just played the ball right or left to whoever was safe. I guess we'll see that improve over time with the first team.

I think what we're seeing more and more is that Anfield is a God awful place to play football if you're a Liverpool player these days. Whether we win or lose, it isn't really about the players. Brendan Rodgers wins or loses. Liverpool don't. All the headlines and stories are about him, and you can feel that resentment in the crowd, from old fellas who have supported the club for years and think that no person is bigger than the club.

Rossiter loved his debut last year, but last night was an odd atmosphere to play football in - and he probably isn't used to playing for Liverpool in front of a packed Anfield crowd.

If he is, given his tender and fledgling years, he probably resents being told by fans that he should be walking over this Sion bunch.

Original post by Zerforax

Yea Ibe was awful last night. Not sure what happened to all the confidence. Probably should've kept Markovic and sent Ibe on loan again.

Markovic got that red card, remember, so he'd have been banned for three EL games anyway.

Rodgers was probably looking at it thinking he wouldn't get PL game time, and he couldn't deploy him in the Europa League stage, so it made sense for him to be farmed out. Sure, maybe he'd have played the final three group matches - and the knockout rounds - but Rodgers might have thought that, if we progress, he'd deploy a strong XI and there'd be no room for Lazar.

As for Ibe? He needs to be taken out of the firing line for a bit. The kid's shot of confidence.

Reply 568

Zerforax

Original post by Mackay

I think so. You may be right. Of course, Carlisle was probably full of less regulars too but the atmosphere was frustrated then too. The boos at the final whistle were expected, given our profligacy in front of goal, but I don't think that the atmosphere was as anti-Rodgers and anti-FSG last night. It was anti-players, and just the same old frustration rearing its head.

I think a fair few of the fans in there last night were probably European, or cosmopolitan fans hoping to experience what Anfield is like on a European night.

This is the issue for me, too. It really is summed up by Origi. You look at him up close in the flesh, and the lad is tall and physical and built. He has the attributes - physically, at least - to succeed. He can run, he's quick, he can even dribble and beat a man. He has no composure, though. He has no clinical edge, no ability to stamp down on an opponent's throat when they are vulnerable.

Similarly, Allen and Lallana are - technically - exceptionally gifted. The former is a stone too light, and the latter is a yard of pace too slow. It's these things which let them down at the elite level. Put them in a Swansea side, or Southampton, or Palace, and they'd be on the shortlist for the PFA Player of the Year because they would be indulged.

They wouldn't need a complete game. Players in mid-table sides don't. We've seen that with Shelvey, who perhaps best epitomises this. He has found his level at the Liberty Stadium, and I think we were absolutely right to get rid of him because he wouldn't have kicked on at Anfield. It wouldn't have happened.

Why? Because, like Ibe, he'd have got minutes and game time in bits and bobs. Half an hour here, a cameo there, a Europa League match here, 120 minutes in a Capital One Cup tie there. It wouldn't be good for his mentality, and I'm sure it isn't good for Ibe's.

It is farcical the more I think about it. I was pleased with the Milner signing, and delighted with Firmino's. I was apprehensive about the Benteke signing - perhaps wrongly - but Clyne was a solid bit of business, and I didn't even bat two eyelids at Gomez.

Bogdan, though? I watch a lot of lower league football, and there's even an argument for saying that he wasn't the best goalkeeper at Bolton last year given Lonergan's imperious form for Lennon's men.

I think what we're seeing more and more is that Anfield is a God awful place to play football if you're a Liverpool player these days. Whether we win or lose, it isn't really about the players. Brendan Rodgers wins or loses. Liverpool don't. All the headlines and stories are about him, and you can feel that resentment in the crowd, from old fellas who have supported the club for years and think that no person is bigger than the club.

Rossiter loved his debut last year, but last night was an odd atmosphere to play football in - and he probably isn't used to playing for Liverpool in front of a packed Anfield crowd.

If he is, given his tender and fledgling years, he probably resents being told by fans that he should be walking over this Sion bunch.

Markovic got that red card, remember, so he'd have been banned for three EL games anyway.

Rodgers was probably looking at it thinking he wouldn't get PL game time, and he couldn't deploy him in the Europa League stage, so it made sense for him to be farmed out. Sure, maybe he'd have played the final three group matches - and the knockout rounds - but Rodgers might have thought that, if we progress, he'd deploy a strong XI and there'd be no room for Lazar.

As for Ibe? He needs to be taken out of the firing line for a bit. The kid's shot of confidence.

I guess Carlisle was seen as worse since they're a couple of leagues down? I don't think the booing is because we didn't score more but because we're not playing very well?

Atmosphere didn't sound that great on TV but then I had a US stream which was annoying as hell. What is wrong with American commentators?

Yea I guess we do have too many average players. Shows you how flawed our transfer strategy has been for a few years.

Mignolet + Lovren are probably going to be two big reasons why Rodgers is remembered for being sacked.

I don't think that is Rodgers doing though. I think the press are just hankering for a sacking since we haven't had one yet and Rodgers looks the most likely as we're not doing well.

Ah I forgot about his red card. At least Fenerbahce have registered him so he's serving out his ban now.

Reply 569

sr90

Volunteer Team

Original post by Thephysicist123

What was the score last night for Liverpool in the Europa League? I do believe you drew to FC Sion, a Swiss team. Just let that sink in. I don't know how you got into the Champions League last season. Also how many Premier League titles have you won?

0/10

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Reply 570

Mackay

Original post by Zerforax

I guess Carlisle was seen as worse since they're a couple of leagues down? I don't think the booing is because we didn't score more but because we're not playing very well?

Yeah, but also I think the Villa game at the weekend helped. Remember, we were coming into Carlisle massively apprehensive following the way we threw away the lead against Norwich when we were seemingly in control.

This weekend, we scored three for the first time in God knows how long. That's a massive thing, and we also showed character in the sense that we scored right after conceding (something we haven't managed recently) and bounced back.

That helped the atmosphere last night. Interesting fact, too: four of our last five results have been 1-1 draws, with us taking the lead in all but conceding within a quarter of an hour.

Reply 571

Zerforax

Original post by Mackay

The Everton game is pretty big for a few reasons. It's just before an international break so any feelings are going to last longer (whether good or bad), it's the local derby and a win/loss is the difference between an okay start and a terrible start..

Reply 572

Bubzeh

Steve Finnan was Liverpool's best right back in modern times.

Reply 573

Zerforax

Original post by Bubzeh

Steve Finnan was Liverpool's best right back in modern times.

I think Arbeloa was a better/more consistent solid RB than Finnan.

Glen Johnson had one amazing season. Can't remember which year it was off the top of my head though.

Reply 574

Mackay

Original post by Zerforax

I think it'll be closely contested, but I'd make Everton favourites purely on confidence alone right now.

Barkley and Stones are integral for them, and you could say that those two local lads will spur them on to really impressing this weekend against us. I think it could act as a watershed fixture, similar to the derby loss which spelled that Hodgson's tenure at the club was very close to finishing back in 2010/11.

Reply 575

Bubzeh

Original post by Zerforax

I think Arbeloa was a better/more consistent solid RB than Finnan.

Glen Johnson had one amazing season. Can't remember which year it was off the top of my head though.

I loved Finnan going forward though so he gets the nod for me. Saw Crouch's overhead kick in the CL again yesterday. Beautifull cross from the right.

But yeah as a solid defensive full back, Arbeloa was tough to beat of course.

Did a good job against Malmo for Madrid, Wednesday too. Shows what Rafa thinks of him to be Marcelo's back up rather than Contrao this season.

Reply 576

Dirtybit

Original post by AsandaLFC

Or the number one target to replace iniesta

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Original post by Lúcio

It's only a matter of time before Coutinho goes to Barca, but we'll get a bucketload for him - if he continues as he is you would imagine somewhere in the region of £40-50m.

Agreed, Coutinho will replace Iniesta and he'll be about £45m. Neymar's already welcomed him. Otherwise Barca will go for Verratti.

Reply 577

swirly

Coutinho to Barcelona Ffs :rofl:

Can we just take a moment to admire 6 league starts: 1 goal (vs Stoke), 2 assists (vs villa)

Ffs it makes man like Allbrighton look like Robben.

For sake of reference bale in 2012/13 put up 21 goals and 9 assists in 33 league games, arguably against teams of a higher calibre than the mighty Stoke and Villa :rofl:

Reply 578

swirly

Neymar Suarez messi

Rakitic Pogba
Busquets

Coutinho you know :rofl:

Reply 579

Lúcio

Original post by swirly

Coutinho to Barcelona Ffs :rofl:

Trust me, it'll happen.

You severely underestimated the potential of that kid; not surprised considering you're an Arsenal fan and he doesn't play for you.

Give him a few more years to develop and stick him in a Barca side with world class quality? Massive difference.