Strong depression & No God realisation
Well I have depression, and have had for a while. Recently it has been very strong because frankly in my life I feel like there is no value or purpose to it. I'm a pretty loveless guy and I feel removed from humanity.
Then I got thinking about God and realised he can't exist. What happens in life is pure luck. You cannot determine anything. You could die any moment. You could be in love and your love dies or runs away, leaving you broken for life. You could go through life like me, being loveless and never finding the one. No amount of prayer will change these things. No amount of hard work and right attitude will mean you will find happiness as a being.
I read a story recently of a boy born with half a skull. Poor kid ... it was a terribly sad article and had me almost in tears. Even the poor boy who has never done any harm gets totally ****ed over by society.
This realisation has made me feel like life is totally and utterly pointless... literally that, what is the point? Just pass on to a next generation ... it's so pathetic. I mean I believe that when we die something happens to us ... but I don't believe this God and heaven malarky.
Thoughts? Anyone wanna convince me that life is worth living?
Then I got thinking about God and realised he can't exist. What happens in life is pure luck. You cannot determine anything. You could die any moment. You could be in love and your love dies or runs away, leaving you broken for life. You could go through life like me, being loveless and never finding the one. No amount of prayer will change these things. No amount of hard work and right attitude will mean you will find happiness as a being.
I read a story recently of a boy born with half a skull. Poor kid ... it was a terribly sad article and had me almost in tears. Even the poor boy who has never done any harm gets totally ****ed over by society.
This realisation has made me feel like life is totally and utterly pointless... literally that, what is the point? Just pass on to a next generation ... it's so pathetic. I mean I believe that when we die something happens to us ... but I don't believe this God and heaven malarky.
Thoughts? Anyone wanna convince me that life is worth living?
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Well I don't believe that there is anything after life, as everything suggests to the contrary, This in itself should be enough to wish to live - I personally find the idea of nothing and non-existence quite hard to imagine, as a conscious and living being.
Meaning in life has only that which you ascribe to it. Personally I hope to live a happy life, and hopefully contribute to humanity in some way.
Life, even when it seems terrible, can have moments of great happiness, meaning, or purpose... and it is for those that it is worth living.
If you feel depressed then it may be worth seeing your GP, who should hopefully identify any causes and solutions to how you're feeling, if has been ongoing for a fair while.
Meaning in life has only that which you ascribe to it. Personally I hope to live a happy life, and hopefully contribute to humanity in some way.
Life, even when it seems terrible, can have moments of great happiness, meaning, or purpose... and it is for those that it is worth living.
If you feel depressed then it may be worth seeing your GP, who should hopefully identify any causes and solutions to how you're feeling, if has been ongoing for a fair while.
There are three usual responses to your predicament:
1. Look on the bright side!
2. Well, polar bear cubs are cute and things, so you should LIVE TO EXPERIENCE THE NATURAL WORLD.
3. WELCOME TO THE ATHEISTS' CLUB! Coats on the left, drinks on the right... We've got cake and punch and reason-derived moral codes! You'll love it!
The responses you should give to the first two, are, respectively, hitting them, and, "oh, f*** off, Attenborough"- possibly whilst hitting them. I humbly offer the third.
First: depression lies to you. Sonofabitch lies through its teeth, and on NO account should you trust it. The idea that the lack of a god means your life is not worth living SEEMS logical to you now, I'm sure, and you're looking now for logical counterarguments. This is completely the wrong approach to take. You will never defeat depression using logic. You can hit it with as many rational arguments as you like, but it will not back down or fade or admit defeat to any force other than time. This is what the ****er does: it takes your rational thought and twists it and poisons it and presents it to you as reason. It's made of the fabric of your own mind- that's why it's so hard to defeat.
Here are the logical counterarguments to the idea that life is not worth living: your life does not have meaning in the sense that it is a word in the language some god uses to communicate with itself. Your life is its own meaning. There is no higher force or power, so your own joy and pleasure is the most powerful, complex, divine force in the universe. Your pain and heartbreak is its greatest tragedy. Your existence in the face of the bleakness of the empty universe is a brilliant, miraculous triumph over a hundred different calculations that say you should not exist. You are the universe's happy ending, its deus ex machina. Every fibre of intelligence and beauty in existence lives and dies in the genius clockwork of your body and mind.
You won't think this is enough. You will present this to the embedded truth in your head that life is worthless and it will remain, stubbornly, undislodged. Like I said: you can't defeat it with logic. You have to hold on to your life and hope, unfailingly, relentlessly, even in the face of a hundred different thoughts saying you shouldn't, until this passes.
And it will pass. Believe me. The world will not always look like this to you. One day, I promise, you will fall in love and it will be joy purer than any beauty the natural world can hope to produce and you will look back on every thought that ever pained you and know that it would be worth enduring them a thousand times again so long as you lived to feel this.
1. Look on the bright side!
2. Well, polar bear cubs are cute and things, so you should LIVE TO EXPERIENCE THE NATURAL WORLD.
3. WELCOME TO THE ATHEISTS' CLUB! Coats on the left, drinks on the right... We've got cake and punch and reason-derived moral codes! You'll love it!
The responses you should give to the first two, are, respectively, hitting them, and, "oh, f*** off, Attenborough"- possibly whilst hitting them. I humbly offer the third.
First: depression lies to you. Sonofabitch lies through its teeth, and on NO account should you trust it. The idea that the lack of a god means your life is not worth living SEEMS logical to you now, I'm sure, and you're looking now for logical counterarguments. This is completely the wrong approach to take. You will never defeat depression using logic. You can hit it with as many rational arguments as you like, but it will not back down or fade or admit defeat to any force other than time. This is what the ****er does: it takes your rational thought and twists it and poisons it and presents it to you as reason. It's made of the fabric of your own mind- that's why it's so hard to defeat.
Here are the logical counterarguments to the idea that life is not worth living: your life does not have meaning in the sense that it is a word in the language some god uses to communicate with itself. Your life is its own meaning. There is no higher force or power, so your own joy and pleasure is the most powerful, complex, divine force in the universe. Your pain and heartbreak is its greatest tragedy. Your existence in the face of the bleakness of the empty universe is a brilliant, miraculous triumph over a hundred different calculations that say you should not exist. You are the universe's happy ending, its deus ex machina. Every fibre of intelligence and beauty in existence lives and dies in the genius clockwork of your body and mind.
You won't think this is enough. You will present this to the embedded truth in your head that life is worthless and it will remain, stubbornly, undislodged. Like I said: you can't defeat it with logic. You have to hold on to your life and hope, unfailingly, relentlessly, even in the face of a hundred different thoughts saying you shouldn't, until this passes.
And it will pass. Believe me. The world will not always look like this to you. One day, I promise, you will fall in love and it will be joy purer than any beauty the natural world can hope to produce and you will look back on every thought that ever pained you and know that it would be worth enduring them a thousand times again so long as you lived to feel this.
but how do you know i will fall in love? some guy in africa has probably just lost all his family - do you think he will find love and why if so or not?
Original post by VergeofInsanity
but how do you know i will fall in love? some guy in africa has probably just lost all his family - do you think he will find love and why if so or not?
You will. Every human does- it's what we're for, in a sense. No one could ever make it through life without loving someone or something. Their brain chemistry wouldn’t let them. (I speak as someone who has once fallen in love with AN ACTUAL FICTIONAL CHARACTER.) And when you do- without wishing to demean or show disrespect to what you’re going through right now- all of this will seem like an interesting but ultimately fruitless thought experiment. The idea that there is nothing to live for will seem unthinkable, but you won’t fault yourself for believing it when you did, because right now you don’t have the one piece of information that will make this all redundant, the answer to the question: her. (Or him/them, obviously.) You will know, without questioning it or thinking about it, that she is the centre of the universe, and as long as she exists the purpose of your life is to make sure she is safe, and happy. You will treasure her every syllable and action as religious scholars cherish the words of their holy texts. The same thing will happen if/when you have a child. You’ll look back on this and think, well obviously I couldn’t understand what life was for. I didn’t know about her yet.
About the second question: there’s no point living your life in fear of pain or grief or bad luck. You will experience all three. There’s no question about it. You will. You shouldn’t fear it the way you would fear a plane crash; you should look at it with the same grim determination you look at illness. It will affect you, that’s part of being human, and you can’t do anything about it but survive it. But even if something that terrible does happen to you, three things are certain: love and joy are always worth it; there is always something in your life to love and to make you happy, and to live for; and that if you can’t see it, you always have the capacity to find it and create it.
I say again: it’s the depression that’s doing this to you. One day this will be gone, and the world will seem joyous. I promise.
Well, it's true that life is pointless, we all die and none of it mattered etc. I am a nihilist. But that isnt a bad thing! i dont understand why people want an afterlife.
I believe that the purpose in life is love. Love for your family and your partner. And what you're saying is true, your love could die or leave you etc but look at everyone, look at all the people who are happy with their spouses, that's way more likely to happen than having your partner die a premature death! You are just thinking negatively, see a doctor and he will put you on medication or therapy if you want, it will help.
I believe that the purpose in life is love. Love for your family and your partner. And what you're saying is true, your love could die or leave you etc but look at everyone, look at all the people who are happy with their spouses, that's way more likely to happen than having your partner die a premature death! You are just thinking negatively, see a doctor and he will put you on medication or therapy if you want, it will help.
If life has a purpose or meaning then we don't find out what it is unless we make it meaningful or purposeful. Religion is just a crutch. We all have our crutches, so am not denying anyone of theirs so as long as its not causing harm etc...You assume that happiness is something you "find" and not create. Obviously material things can bring happiness, but so can immaterial things: are they the same type of happiness? Is one of more value than the other? Happiness is not always consistent. It's like packets of drugs to people: always after their next fix by buying this or hanging around this person or waiting until Friday...Obviously we can't go through our lives not wanting or desiring things/people/connections etc, but people rely on it too much and too often.
People may believe in afterlives so that they can be rewarded or praised or see justice...Nobody takes comfort knowing that Jimmy Saville went through his whole life causing misery and pain only to wind up dead with no justice served on this side of life or the other. With so many religions and ideologies out there, it's silly to put so much faith in one of them, but also silly to rule any one of them out.
It's petty to assume that just because your love dies or runs away that you will be broken for life. There are countless of cases where people have gone on to find love again. It also depends on your definition of love. Is it simply the scientific explanation of love, where there's no such thing of it in nature and it's all to do with illusions and the brain, or is it a genuine, soulful connection with another living being? I'm sure there are more definitions of the term, but maybe your problem lies within a societal expectation of finding "the one." As if magically that one person, out of a current 7 something billion people, just happened to walk into the same bar you did. As if that feeling couldn't be replicated with someone else.
I can't tell you that life's worth living. I don't have that power to convince you; I'm not in your head twenty-four-seven; in your shoes seven days a week. You might want to try staying more productive/busy (less time to overthink), being more present (focusing more on the here and now/what you're doing/saying), and educating yourself more about your brain, your emotions, how you're in control, how you'll never be in control etc...
People may believe in afterlives so that they can be rewarded or praised or see justice...Nobody takes comfort knowing that Jimmy Saville went through his whole life causing misery and pain only to wind up dead with no justice served on this side of life or the other. With so many religions and ideologies out there, it's silly to put so much faith in one of them, but also silly to rule any one of them out.
It's petty to assume that just because your love dies or runs away that you will be broken for life. There are countless of cases where people have gone on to find love again. It also depends on your definition of love. Is it simply the scientific explanation of love, where there's no such thing of it in nature and it's all to do with illusions and the brain, or is it a genuine, soulful connection with another living being? I'm sure there are more definitions of the term, but maybe your problem lies within a societal expectation of finding "the one." As if magically that one person, out of a current 7 something billion people, just happened to walk into the same bar you did. As if that feeling couldn't be replicated with someone else.
I can't tell you that life's worth living. I don't have that power to convince you; I'm not in your head twenty-four-seven; in your shoes seven days a week. You might want to try staying more productive/busy (less time to overthink), being more present (focusing more on the here and now/what you're doing/saying), and educating yourself more about your brain, your emotions, how you're in control, how you'll never be in control etc...
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by VergeofInsanity
Well I have depression, and have had for a while. Recently it has been very strong because frankly in my life I feel like there is no value or purpose to it. I'm a pretty loveless guy and I feel removed from humanity.
Then I got thinking about God and realised he can't exist. What happens in life is pure luck. You cannot determine anything. You could die any moment. You could be in love and your love dies or runs away, leaving you broken for life. You could go through life like me, being loveless and never finding the one. No amount of prayer will change these things. No amount of hard work and right attitude will mean you will find happiness as a being.
I read a story recently of a boy born with half a skull. Poor kid ... it was a terribly sad article and had me almost in tears. Even the poor boy who has never done any harm gets totally ****ed over by society.
This realisation has made me feel like life is totally and utterly pointless... literally that, what is the point? Just pass on to a next generation ... it's so pathetic. I mean I believe that when we die something happens to us ... but I don't believe this God and heaven malarky.
Thoughts? Anyone wanna convince me that life is worth living?
Then I got thinking about God and realised he can't exist. What happens in life is pure luck. You cannot determine anything. You could die any moment. You could be in love and your love dies or runs away, leaving you broken for life. You could go through life like me, being loveless and never finding the one. No amount of prayer will change these things. No amount of hard work and right attitude will mean you will find happiness as a being.
I read a story recently of a boy born with half a skull. Poor kid ... it was a terribly sad article and had me almost in tears. Even the poor boy who has never done any harm gets totally ****ed over by society.
This realisation has made me feel like life is totally and utterly pointless... literally that, what is the point? Just pass on to a next generation ... it's so pathetic. I mean I believe that when we die something happens to us ... but I don't believe this God and heaven malarky.
Thoughts? Anyone wanna convince me that life is worth living?
Realising there is no god and life is inherently meaningless, can actually be the beginning of a joy greater than any other you have felt before. Suggest you read up on "existential nihilism"
Original post by Romula
You will. Every human does- it's what we're for, in a sense. No one could ever make it through life without loving someone or something. Their brain chemistry wouldn’t let them. (I speak as someone who has once fallen in love with AN ACTUAL FICTIONAL CHARACTER.) And when you do- without wishing to demean or show disrespect to what you’re going through right now- all of this will seem like an interesting but ultimately fruitless thought experiment. The idea that there is nothing to live for will seem unthinkable, but you won’t fault yourself for believing it when you did, because right now you don’t have the one piece of information that will make this all redundant, the answer to the question: her. (Or him/them, obviously.) You will know, without questioning it or thinking about it, that she is the centre of the universe, and as long as she exists the purpose of your life is to make sure she is safe, and happy. You will treasure her every syllable and action as religious scholars cherish the words of their holy texts. The same thing will happen if/when you have a child. You’ll look back on this and think, well obviously I couldn’t understand what life was for. I didn’t know about her yet.
About the second question: there’s no point living your life in fear of pain or grief or bad luck. You will experience all three. There’s no question about it. You will. You shouldn’t fear it the way you would fear a plane crash; you should look at it with the same grim determination you look at illness. It will affect you, that’s part of being human, and you can’t do anything about it but survive it. But even if something that terrible does happen to you, three things are certain: love and joy are always worth it; there is always something in your life to love and to make you happy, and to live for; and that if you can’t see it, you always have the capacity to find it and create it.
I say again: it’s the depression that’s doing this to you. One day this will be gone, and the world will seem joyous. I promise.
About the second question: there’s no point living your life in fear of pain or grief or bad luck. You will experience all three. There’s no question about it. You will. You shouldn’t fear it the way you would fear a plane crash; you should look at it with the same grim determination you look at illness. It will affect you, that’s part of being human, and you can’t do anything about it but survive it. But even if something that terrible does happen to you, three things are certain: love and joy are always worth it; there is always something in your life to love and to make you happy, and to live for; and that if you can’t see it, you always have the capacity to find it and create it.
I say again: it’s the depression that’s doing this to you. One day this will be gone, and the world will seem joyous. I promise.
your enthusiasm is impressive! but how are you so sure about this all? i mean a relationship might mean more to you than me. love might be differently interpreted.
Original post by VergeofInsanity
frankly in my life I feel like there is no value or purpose to it. I'm a pretty loveless guy and I feel removed from humanity.
Original post by VergeofInsanity
I read a story recently of a boy born with half a skull. Poor kid ... it was a terribly sad article and had me almost in tears. Even the poor boy who has never done any harm gets totally ****ed over by society.
It is society - which means people - that provided the doctors and intensive care and specialists that mean he's alive. It is society that will provide the education, adaptations, benefits and support that mean he'll get as much out of his life as possible.
Isn't that a good thing?
Original post by VergeofInsanity
This realisation has made me feel like life is totally and utterly pointless... literally that, what is the point?
Original post by VergeofInsanity
I mean I believe that when we die something happens to us
Original post by VergeofInsanity
Thoughts? Anyone wanna convince me that life is worth living?
Original post by VergeofInsanity
your enthusiasm is impressive! but how are you so sure about this all? i mean a relationship might mean more to you than me. love might be differently interpreted.
Love can't be 'differently interpreted'. Love is love. It's a human universal. It is designed to grip us in ecstasy and focus us on one person so that their welfare and safety means more to us than that of a billion strangers. Love has inspired the most beautiful art and writing ever produced by man. Relationships, in the sense of dates and sex and all of that, might mean different things to different people. yes. But love is, always, all-consuming.
Why would you depressed? If I stopped believing a god I'd be perfectly happy to become the next Stalin!
Seek treatment for depression....problem solved....
TSR is an odd place sometimes
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TSR is an odd place sometimes
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Original post by NutellaLuv
Seek treatment for depression....problem solved....
TSR is an odd place sometimes
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TSR is an odd place sometimes
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why odd? what have i said that is odd
Original post by VergeofInsanity
Well I have depression, and have had for a while. Recently it has been very strong because frankly in my life I feel like there is no value or purpose to it. I'm a pretty loveless guy and I feel removed from humanity.
I am sure others may respond on the other stuff you said, but why not try to consider taking care of your mental health than all the possibilities of the universe?
Talk to a counselor, friends, and family. Not just that you have a depression but examine why. what could be the cause? Then take steps to see if you can handle it without drugs. Try volunteering at a non profit (only the ones that help others, like by clothing them or feeding poor or fixing something. something you can increase the skills you have).
Then I got thinking about God and realized he can't exist. What happens in life is pure luck. You cannot determine anything. You could die any moment. You could be in love and your love dies or runs away, leaving you broken for life.
You could go through life like me, being loveless and never finding the one. No amount of prayer will change these things. No amount of hard work and right attitude will mean you will find happiness as a being.
Also, prayer is not focused on changing things or what situation you are in. the focus is you through God. Its purpose is to change you.
I read a story recently of a boy born with half a skull. Poor kid ... it was a terribly sad article and had me almost in tears. Even the poor boy who has never done any harm gets totally ****ed over by society.
This realization has made me feel like life is totally and utterly pointless...
Nothing in wisdom is found instantaneously and the way you feel 5 years could change just as you have changed form 5 years ago.
literally that, what is the point? Just pass on to a next generation ... it's so pathetic. I mean I believe that when we die something happens to us ... but I don't believe this God and heaven malarky.
Then why be so against it or make any remark at all?
Seriously, focus on your own mental health first. some may tell you "at a boy. the quicker you turn away from that malarkey the better you feel - but your issue may not even have to do so much about what has been touched on in the O.P. but in other aspects in your life. everyone else needs to piss off. So first things first. get help. Depression is a disease that, even if you have to live with it your entire life, it is manageable. you can find joy cause it is okay not to be happy.
Thoughts? Anyone wanna convince me that life is worth living?
Original post by DiddyDec
+1 purely because it is Citizen Kane.
This has also happened to me. I believed in God until I was in my early 30's. I spokes a pipe given to me by somebody at a party and it opened my mind to display the truth to me. At least that was his I saw it. And this prompted me to look closer at arguments for and against the existence of a god. Whilst you cannot say with certainty there is no God, I believe one has to live as if there is not one given that there is insufficient evidence to meet the claim. With that being the case you will have to discover your own meaning and purpose in life. It could be anything. I am also still desperately struggling with this and I'm now 36. I consider suicide quite regularly these days which is really sad. I secretly blame my parents for having me as I see that as a selfish act but cannot say this to them and in any case I think they were just very ignorant. I think I am a nihilist and it sounds like you may be also. I hate to tell you this - and don't take my word for it because this is just another one of those private thoughts and worries I have so I could be wrong - but it might even be worse than you see it: I'm not convinced love even exists. Well I think it exists as a concept but then God is also a concept. Perhaps peace of mind is the best we can hope for. I sincerely hope you find what you are looking for.
Original post by VergeofInsanity
Well I have depression, and have had for a while. Recently it has been very strong because frankly in my life I feel like there is no value or purpose to it. I'm a pretty loveless guy and I feel removed from humanity.
Then I got thinking about God and realised he can't exist. What happens in life is pure luck. You cannot determine anything. You could die any moment. You could be in love and your love dies or runs away, leaving you broken for life. You could go through life like me, being loveless and never finding the one. No amount of prayer will change these things. No amount of hard work and right attitude will mean you will find happiness as a being.
I read a story recently of a boy born with half a skull. Poor kid ... it was a terribly sad article and had me almost in tears. Even the poor boy who has never done any harm gets totally ****ed over by society.
This realisation has made me feel like life is totally and utterly pointless... literally that, what is the point? Just pass on to a next generation ... it's so pathetic. I mean I believe that when we die something happens to us ... but I don't believe this God and heaven malarky.
Thoughts? Anyone wanna convince me that life is worth living?
Then I got thinking about God and realised he can't exist. What happens in life is pure luck. You cannot determine anything. You could die any moment. You could be in love and your love dies or runs away, leaving you broken for life. You could go through life like me, being loveless and never finding the one. No amount of prayer will change these things. No amount of hard work and right attitude will mean you will find happiness as a being.
I read a story recently of a boy born with half a skull. Poor kid ... it was a terribly sad article and had me almost in tears. Even the poor boy who has never done any harm gets totally ****ed over by society.
This realisation has made me feel like life is totally and utterly pointless... literally that, what is the point? Just pass on to a next generation ... it's so pathetic. I mean I believe that when we die something happens to us ... but I don't believe this God and heaven malarky.
Thoughts? Anyone wanna convince me that life is worth living?
Think of it as a sandbox game. Make your own goals in life. Make your life your own.
And perhaps in your case, start reading up on Buddhist philosophy. Buddha's view on the world was that it was inherently full of misery, and that life itself was miserable.
Other than that, I guess you could try and enjoy the small things in life. For you to successfully do so you might have to start reading up on philosophy so that you have the building blocks of actually enjoying those simple pleasures with the help of nature. I would suggest you reading up on Daoism, Lao Tzu, and the Tao Te Ching.
In my case, I also had to go through a rather heavy depression last year and I still suffer from some of the remnants. Moved from abroad to the UK last year, from a great school to a terribly crappy one, and wrecked my life goal, more or less, by landing here (and that was to go to oxbridge; oh well). And so, one entire year I suffered from a COMPLETE lack of motivation and morale. It was a wasted year, and my life goal has been postponed rather considerably, the experience has given me something to be bitter about, resent and regret for the rest of my life.
However, I've managed to work through it through my passions and through my life long obsession with power-lifting. Just take up hobbies, they'll give you meaning in life, and make you feel as though you're achieving something (because you would be).
Literally, all you have to do is find something you are passionate about. Do not give up until you do find multiple such things.
Also, one advantage to being depressed and detached like that is that you just don't give a crap. Very helpful when it comes to enjoying the simple things in life, or setting yourself your own goals. It all becomes much more.... relaxed. You can go with the flow then.
(edited 8 years ago)
