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Steel Crisis

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Original post by MatureStudent36
There's a lot of things and people at fault.


However to pretend that China's steel dumping hasn't caused this to happen at least at this very moment of time is silly.
Original post by HucktheForde
well it is. thats what international trade is about.


Im aware of that.

But a reduction in shipping costs should mean uk Steel should be more competitive.

Issues like this are cyclic. We've seen similar happen before.
Original post by chantalc
guess who's on a visit to the UK..


All Hail the barbarian human rights abusers who are currently helping to destroy our steel industry!
Original post by United1892
However to pretend that China's steel dumping hasn't caused this to happen at least at this very moment of time is silly.


There's many factors at play.

Inefficient uk steel production.

EU failing to be responsive to China dumping.

Green taxes on energy usage.


Let's not forget though that it's also great news for steel users.
Original post by United1892
It's China's fault.


what isn't
Original post by MatureStudent36
I still find it hard to believe that shipping material from the other side of the world is still cheaper than making it in the
Market.
It's actually cheaper to import lamb from New Zealand to the UK than to produce it locally - and apparently are of a higher quality than those bred in the UK.

Furthermore, the pound has been strengthening, while the AUD, SGD, and Renminbi have been weakening, making UK manufacturing costs uncompetitive.
Original post by MatureStudent36
There's many factors at play.

Inefficient uk steel production.

EU failing to be responsive to China dumping.

Green taxes on energy usage.


Let's not forget though that it's also great news for steel users.


love your thinking
Original post by MatureStudent36
There's many factors at play.

Inefficient uk steel production.

EU failing to be responsive to China dumping.

Green taxes on energy usage.


Let's not forget though that it's also great news for steel users.


If steel was more efficient, it would weather this better yes however even steelworkers which have been previously stable have suffered from this.

Although these are all factors particularly the second one, they're not the most important.
Original post by HucktheForde
what isn't


Most things.
Original post by United1892
Most things.


that wasn't a question.
On the technical front there is nothing to see, economic laws unfolding in the free-market economic system just as they should by definition. There will be a wing of opinion who will claim the system should be redrawn but we can't wait that long. Demand for any particular commodity is subject to fluctuations, production means and conditions are subject to a perpetual state of change because nothing stays the same forever.

So the only reason we have this in the news is the social aspect, the impact it has on local communities dependent on the lost jobs. In that respect, we can wonder what Jeremy Corbyn and New Old Labour would be doing or saying differently from the Tory government were they in power. Exactly...
(edited 8 years ago)
[QUOTE=Smack;60016053]Don't hold me on this, but I'm reading that Redcar was a producer of semi-finished steel slabs, and was originally bought by the new owners SSI of Thailand as a feedstock plant for their own steel production at home. The UK cannot be competitive at this end of the market.

But steel is necessarily just steel. Instead I think we should be seeing if we can be competitive on the production of higher end grades of steel that are currently more difficult to find on the market.

Depends what sort of grades of steel your talking about. Lots of various grades are only used for products requiring special properties. Bulk of work done is usually with low carbon steel and 300 series austenitic stainless (304, 316 etc) which can be easily and cheaply imported from places like China.

The UK metal and metalworking industries would be better off if it concentrated on work that cannot easily be outsourced. Companies aren't as willing to outsource working involving exotic high performance alloys such as duplex steel, titanium, hastalloy for quality, security etc reasons. Unfortunately I doubt the UK will ever have a technical education base for more than a few multinationals to corner that market. Far cheaper for a colleges to run maths classes than welding, machining etc.
Original post by Leeds98
The UK metal and metalworking industries would be better off if it concentrated on work that cannot easily be outsourced. Companies aren't as willing to outsource working involving exotic high performance alloys such as duplex steel, titanium, hastalloy for quality, security etc reasons.


Well, yes, that's what I'm suggesting.


Unfortunately I doubt the UK will ever have a technical education base for more than a few multinationals to corner that market. Far cheaper for a colleges to run maths classes than welding, machining etc.


That is a problem, in that we focus too much on the "academic" side of education, because we fallaciously believe that there is little to no value in the more "hands on" side, that we are past it. However, I believe that skilled machinists, welders and other artisans make good money these days.
the Chinese steel plants are not encumbered with environmental loading on their energy bills... and they pay 50p an hour... not health and safety to worry about...
Don't know how people can say there's no difference between British and Chinese steel, every time I put the news on some Chinese person has had their head chopped off in a broken escalator or they've been squashed to death in a broken lift. Except for Confucianism, Chinese stuff is ****
Reply 55
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Maker
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Original post by interact
Don't know how people can say there's no difference between British and Chinese steel, every time I put the news on some Chinese person has had their head chopped off in a broken escalator or they've been squashed to death in a broken lift. Except for Confucianism, Chinese stuff is ****


Thats how they execute people in China, its done on purpose.
Whilst it is upsetting to the people involved to lose their livelihoods, we should not take any action against it.

Anything we could do to prop up the steel industry (tariffs, minimum prices, state-aid, devaluation) would mean that either taxpayers or consumers will end up paying for it, either through higher prices or higher taxes. We would be less competitive as a nation and inevitably a greater number of jobs would be lost across the economy. The exception is getting rid of the green crap, but the left wouldn't like that either.

As difficult as it is, the best thing for everyone is that these people go and work in industries which actually offer a profit.
Original post by Bupdeeboowah
It's actually cheaper to import lamb from New Zealand to the UK than to produce it locally - and apparently are of a higher quality than those bred in the UK.

Furthermore, the pound has been strengthening, while the AUD, SGD, and Renminbi have been weakening, making UK manufacturing costs uncompetitive.


You forgot to mention the green tax on electricity usage that the last labour government implemented. That ones been a killer for the industry as a whole.
Reply 58
Avatar for Darren96
Darren96
OP
Original post by Rinsed
Whilst it is upsetting to the people involved to lose their livelihoods, we should not take any action against it.

Anything we could do to prop up the steel industry (tariffs, minimum prices, state-aid, devaluation) would mean that either taxpayers or consumers will end up paying for it, either through higher prices or higher taxes. We would be less competitive as a nation and inevitably a greater number of jobs would be lost across the economy. The exception is getting rid of the green crap, but the left wouldn't like that either.

As difficult as it is, the best thing for everyone is that these people go and work in industries which actually offer a profit.


So when the Scunthorpe Steelworks closes within a few years, it will have an knock on effect which will at least put 20,000 out of work. Basically the end of Scunthorpe. It will be cheaper to save the works now rather then pay to reinvent a whole townS


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Original post by Darren96
So when the Scunthorpe Steelworks closes within a few years, it will have an knock on effect which will at least put 20,000 out of work. Basically the end of Scunthorpe. It will be cheaper to save the works now rather then pay to reinvent a whole townS


Posted from TSR Mobile
I wonder, how different is it to have 20,000 people out of work and on benefits paid by the taxpayer, or 20,000 people in work artificially supported by the taxpayer.

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