Why are we giving social housing to immigrants from Poland, Bulgaria, Croatia etc?

Original post by chantalc

true, but we're not Germanys only and most important trading partner

We're still important though.

Reply 184

chantalc

10

Original post by United1892

How have we benefitted? We are unable to make our own free trade deals, the EU has been culpable in allowing steel prices to butcher our industry, uncontrolled immigration supresses wages, our democracy is being slowly stripped away by the European Commission, CAP is an unmitigated disaster for our farmers and we have to pay more for our items to aid the markets of foreign countries.

thats true.

Original post by United1892

We're still important though.

yh

Reply 185

billydisco

OP

3

Original post by United1892

If we wanted free trade we wouldn't be in the EU.

The EU referendum of the 1970s was "do you want to belong to a free trade bloc?", not "if we join every single EU immigrant can live here, receive social housing etc"

Reply 186

billydisco

OP

3

Original post by chantalc

we're in the EU for a single market

I said the 1970s referendum was about free trade and thats what we joined for, not free movement.

Original post by chantalc

and Germanys largest trading partners are France then the USA, then us

I corrected myself, we're third- still pretty bloody significant to Germany!

Reply 187

billydisco

OP

3

Original post by United1892

How have we benefitted? We are unable to make our own free trade deals, the EU has been culpable in allowing steel prices to butcher our industry, uncontrolled immigration supresses wages, our democracy is being slowly stripped away by the European Commission, CAP is an unmitigated disaster for our farmers and we have to pay more for our items to aid the markets of foreign countries.

Didn't think we'd ever be on the same side? I thought you were pro-EU?

You forgot to mention how the EU fishing quotas have destroyed our fishing industry.

Reply 188

United1892

Original post by billydisco

The EU referendum of the 1970s was "do you want to belong to a free trade bloc?", not "if we join every single EU immigrant can live here, receive social housing etc"

A protectionist bloc is not free trade.

Reply 189

United1892

Original post by billydisco

Didn't think we'd ever be on the same side? I thought you were pro-EU?

You forgot to mention how the EU fishing quotas have destroyed our fishing industry.

No, I'm anti-eu just for different reasons to you.

Not as much as overfishing wouldve.

Reply 190

username1148663

21

Original post by billydisco

1. We're not discussing people going on holiday. Not many British people move abroad to live in Europe compared with the number of migrants coming here. Also, I'm fairly confident a self-sufficient British person would be admitted to any EU country without freedom of movement. In contrast, a sponging, low-skilled immigrant wouldn't get here. Win win.

2) Exactly. You're starting to see what the EU is about now. I told you its sole purpose is to remove wealth from the UK.

3) Yes we can, leave the EU and have a free trade agreement in place?

Actually the numbers aren't that massively different. However! We tend to export the over 50's to them retiring abroad with lots of capital from cashing in their pensions and houses and taking their money into mostly the Irish, Spanish and French economies.

In other words we export wealth and import poverty

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Reply 191

Original post by Bornblue

I certainly think there's a strong argument to give British people priority with social housing, yes.

Wow. Surprised to see you say that Bornblue.

Hadn't intended posting on this thread because I think it's near certain ( regardless of the odds/ polls) that we will vote to come out of the EU assuming Cameron can't get a great deal.

But out of curiosity can I assume that you would have no problem giving social housing to a Polish/Slovakian couple who have been here for years and worked all hours and have a child should,for example,the breadwinner become chronically ill?

If British people are to have priority what exactly would happen to this couple?

I assume billydisco would say they should go back home or live in a bedsit for the rest of their lives.

But what would you say?

I mean are they to live in a bedsit until every single British person who needs housing is in fact housed?

How would that work? Especially since if we had a policy of housing all British people who need it it would in fact encourage more (British )people to become intentionally 'homeless' thus 'homelessness' would never end.

You know what makes me puke about this argument about British people getting priority for social housing?

The fact that there is in fact no political will whatsoever to sort out housing in this country.

And that's because the electorate only care about this issue when they -shock horror - discover that ( a tiny percentage) of housing goes to foreigners! Of all the injustices in the world!!!

The shortage of houses is one of the main things that keep the economy relatively buoyant and owning more than one house is the easiest way to get on in this country.

And that's just how almost all house owners want it.

( Bornblue,as I think I told you once,I rarely read replies to my posts.Im sure that any reply would more than adequately deal with this post and I also don't see the point in arguing with billydisco since although he is usually right about most things he posts on- which is one of the reasons I follow him- his world is simply not one I would wish to live in.)

I merely posted the first thing that came into my head as this subject makes me somewhat angry :frown:

)

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 192

Original post by 0123456543210

Should just ignore all the ignorant EDL and BNP supporters, usually all those people who cry about immigrants taking away their jobs are those chavs who live off benefits and who don't seek any way to improve their quality of life. Migrants don't take jobs or housing, it's the lack of education and determination of those people who cry about it that does!

Well migrants do take jobs and housing from British people of course. :smile:

The real point is why do dome people appear to care so much about this?

I don't understand why I should care more that a British person has received something from our taxes than a migrant.

I'm not kidding.Its just something that troubles me not one iota.

OK I am willing to accept that this may mean that I am....um.....I dunno......stupid? ....mad?......a terrible person? Whatever.

I mean obviously I don't think it would be a good idea if we allowed every single poor person in the world to come here.

But we don't!!!

Just some. ( And anyway if enough people hate immigratants getting benefits then they have a political party they can all vote for and even a refendum on EU membership coming up.)

Hallelujah.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 193

Original post by Maker

All the housing problems started with the Tories selling off hundreds of thousands of council houses in the 1980s and 90s and not building new ones.

A lot of ex council houses are now being rented out by private landlords costing the taxpayer billions in housing benefit.

Tory supporters are stupid if they complain about lack of housing because its their fault

I think it's disingenuous to say all the housing problems started with the Tories.

And anyway making this a Tory /Labour thing is to miss the point.

New Labour made the situation worse.

The mainstream parties simply don't care about this issue- no matter what they claim- as

a) there aren't enough votes in it

b) most of the mainstream politicians personally and their constituencies benefit from house price rises.

c) the inflationary housing market in this country hides many ills

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 194

Original post by billydisco

1. There is no housing crisis in the UK, there is a population crisis. If I build ten houses and I have ten people, what happens if another ten people magically arrive?

2. If you admit answering my question contradicts your original point, then you accept I am correct and you are wrong.

There really isn't a population crisis in this country you know. :smile:

Reply 195

Original post by ChickenMadness

it's terrible tbh. I know someone who's going to be living in a domestic abuse refuge for 2 years because thats how long the waiting lists are. Because she's lower priority than the economic immigrants.

I'm really curious about this post.

I totally understand how terrible it must be to suffer domestic abuse ok?

But how can this poor person know in advance that she won't be getting a job in those two years?

If it's because her partner could track her down were she to find work and pay her own way then fine I guess.

Although in that case I don't see how being housed will stop that happening anyway.

Is she never intending to work again?

If she has children then this of course changes everything and it does seem to be scandalous that children could be spending 2 years living in a refuge.

However if there are immigrants being housed ahead of this woman then I very much doubt that there wouldn't be compelling reasons for it.

Reply 196

username1148663

21

Original post by moggis

Well migrants do take jobs and housing from British people of course. :smile:

The real point is why do dome people appear to care so much about this?

I don't understand why I should care more that a British person has received something from our taxes than a migrant.

I'm not kidding.Its just something that troubles me not one iota.

OK I am willing to accept that this may mean that I am....um.....I dunno......stupid? ....mad?......a terrible person? Whatever.

I mean obviously I don't think it would be a good idea if we allowed every single poor person in the world to come here.

But we don't!!!

Just some. ( And anyway if enough people hate immigratants getting benefits then they have a political party they can all vote for and even a refendum on EU membership coming up.)

Hallelujah.

How about I tell you why you should care that LOW PAID immigrants come to this country.

You know it puts pressure on the housing stock, public services and competition for jobs when lots of people are unemployed/under employed meaning unemployment could be lower and wages higher. Ok let's look at it this way.

You're 21 and have just graduated from university with a degree and 50k of debt.

You are lucky and get a job paying you the 25k but the wage gain prospects aren't great and maybe you will be in 32k in 5 or 10 years.

You want to get married, have two children retire at 65 and buy a 3 bedroom detached home in a middle class neighbourhood going on one family holiday per year......

Doesn't sound crazy ambitious just an educated middle class life.

Well here goes.

You need to save 25k for a 10% deposit on a 250k house.... How long will that take whilst paying rent, having a social life and getting married by the time you are say 28? 7 years.

How do you get them to agree to a mortgage when your on 25-32k a year for a 225k mortgage? 8 or so times your wages is illegal to lend and unrealistic you can pay it back.

Don't forget house prices are rising 5 to 10% a year too compounded in those 7 years so the house will easily be over 300k

You're also paying 9% extra in tax over 21k because you went to university.

You want to be married around that kind of age as you want to try to conceive by the time your 30 so you have good amounts of energy to bring up your children, increase the likelihood of conceiving and all of that.

Let's say you manage that too

You need to keep working as the cost of living is too high so you have to pay huge childcare costs before school, then after school clubs when older etc.

Let's say you manage that too (dunno how)

You want to save for your kids education so they don't have the same burden as you did or save for a deposit for a house for them but you can't.

And then the big elephant in the room how are you putting away 15% - 20% away for your pension per year from 21 years old so you can afford to live decently when you retire after working for 44 years?

What happens if you get ill? Or all the other multitude of things that happen in people's lives?

It would be utter stupidity to say low paid migrants are at fault for this but they do make the problem worse!

Our generation truly has it well **** and it's about time people realised this and started pushing for people to do something about it

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Reply 197

Original post by chantalc

wtf loooool how far ago did you get that reply? Ive started my AS. And shame on you for having such **** opinions when you're obviously older than me and therefore should appreciate the EU as I don't work.

I said the point of the EU was to create an equal state

Hope you don't mind me offering advice but may I suggest that in future - and there's gonna be a lot of these threads in the next two years unless billydisco finally gets a girlfriend :smile:

*- whenever you are asked what the benefits of the EU are point out that you don't need to because of the mere fact that David Cameron and about 100 other Tories want us to be in it.( I guessed the 100 Tories - but it can't be much less I think).

Thus either there are good reasons for us to be in the EU or the Tory PM ( who said all those nasty things about the Labour leader remember) is an idiot.

Or a traitor!

Cheers and good luck

* apologies billydisco

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 198

Studentus-anonymous