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My favourite pro veganism quotation!

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You might wanna specify what type of samosa :wink:
Original post by Louisb19
There is a huge difference between eating an animal once it is dead, and killing an animal so you can eat it. In today's society, if you eat meat from supermarkets then you are supporting the second point.

I would accept inheritance from a relative if they pass. I would not murder a relative in order to get inheritance.


Not really, the difference is scavenging vs hunting and in terms of our species history it's a very minor and meaningless distinction.

But, assuming you do the whole vegan stuff for animal welfare rather than as a front for an eating disorder (very common throughout vegans and vegetarians); the simple facts of it are that animals have to die for us to survive every single day: nature is red in tooth and claw.

So, let's say we all swear off meat tomorrow - ignoring the massive decimation of land now agricultural animals are no longer killed "early", what happens to domesticated dogs, cats, reptiles and other meat-eating pets now we've stopped production?

What impact will human foraging and the mass conversion of farmland have on local ecosystems? How many environments, and as a result animals, are you going to destroy in the process?

Given you're using a computer, you've bought into the industrial age, so how many animals have been killed for you to be able to make these posts, both in terms of environments destroyed for the mining of precious metals for the circuits, those cut down to provide power to service it, the rivers polluted by the effluent from the manufacturing process?

Presumably you're also not homeless, so how many animals were dehomed and ultimately destroyed to clear the plot of land to build on, along with the ones who suffered the same fate to quench the need for lumber and clay to then build the house?

But, beyond all that - how exactly does veganism do anything but just allow you to facilitate the maltreatment without having the blood on your hands? We're omnivorous by nature, we'll never stop eating meat, so surely the best move is to instead push for the humane methods of killing (pre-stunning etc.) to be more prevalent, for the poor living conditions to be addressed? Buy local, from farmers rather than commercial abattoirs, buy free-range, but just not participating is essentially an example of the idea of all that evil needs is for good men to do nothing - you're not making a change, you're in essence supporting the industries continuation while just washing your hands of the consequences.
Definitely. Though I've never had a samosa.
Still need to convert that grazing land into farming land, and the land used for animal feed into foods we eat. What ecosystems are you destroying there
Furthermore veganism isn't an eating disorder and eating disorders are not common amongst vegans. Prove that outlandish claim please. Vegans become vegans for ethical reasons, not due to disorders.
[video="youtube;WrjwaqZfjIY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY[/video]

Vegetarians (and as a result vegans) are associated with a much higher probability of suffering from an eating disorder: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/real-healing/201211/vegetarianism-and-eating-disorders

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1471015315000860

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1889742,00.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3402905/

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002822303002918

Notice you're still avoiding the issue of animals having to die every day for you to live though. Care to answer any of the points made?
(edited 8 years ago)
Chips are tasty?
Original post by Wilfred Little
Chips are tasty?


Done well - yes. chunky, crisply fried and lightly spiced :sogood:
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Done well - yes. chunky, crisply fried and lightly spiced :sogood:


Would eat, but typically they are a stodgy and comforting accompaniment to something that is actually tastier. Like say, fish, steak or burgers :eek:
Yeah well, he didn't believe in irrational numbers! Shows what he knows.

Was also scared of beans :teehee:
Your logic is backward; humans (almost without exception) care about other humans more than they do other animals. You could perhaps argue that if humans stopped killing each other then they may stop killing animals but I don't think you can make the reverse argument.

My original point was that if we were so compassionate to animals that we refused to eat them, despite their nutritional value, then we would not be the dominant animal on the planet and would likely not have reached the point of development we're currently at.


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Original post by TheonlyMrsHolmes
My favourite quote is "If slaughterhouses were made out of glass, nobody would eat meat" something along those lines :smile:


If abattoirs had glass walls, people would be vegetarian. Linda McCartney.

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We should go for a drink sometime, I bet you're really interesting to talk to at parties...
Yum, massacre, murder and pain make meat taste all the more delicious :colonhash:
On the contrary, I expect male humans would more or less kill each other on sight if we didn't have to club together to hunt large animals. At the very least our society would be like that of chimpanzees so a strict brutal hierarchy. You could kiss goodbye to the purposeful association of human beings and therefore to much of the technological progress we have enjoyed over the past ten thousand years.
I'm not justifying eating meat today, just saying why we wouldn't have been here to ask the question if we hadn't been meat-eaters - specifically big game hunters - as cavemen.

There is no particular reason for us to eat meat, but no reason for us to feel bad about it either. Farm animals are not smart enough to understand death or confinement, and they get what seems to me to be a sweet deal: food on tap, protection from predation, veterinary medicine and disease control, longer lifespans, for males all the shagging they can get.

Aside from certain husbandry methods which are deplorable but can easily be improved, the only twinge of ethical concern I have felt from your posts is in the separation of babies from their mothers. (Although chickens can't even count their eggs and I'm pretty sure they'll even brood on an empty nest.)
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by CloakedSpartan


You know who else killed people who didn't live the same way he did? Hitler.


Plus he was a vegetarian :ninja:
Of course animals feel fear at the moment of death (as they would in the wild). So ensure they are stunned prior to slaighter or otherwise killed humanely. It remains that animals living on the farm, or even lining up at the abattoir, do not understand that their death warrant is signed.

As for your notion that they are getting a sweet deal, I do not agree. If I was in the animals position I would rather not ever have come into existence than lead the life they live. What kind of animal wants to come into the world just to be restricted to a field or pen or cage, some force fed, and then to be killed for meat? That is no life for human or animal.


They do not understand the abstract concept of freedom. Close confinement is obviously uncomfortable for more immediate reasons and not the sort of practice I would support.

As for animals moving from pasture to pasture to milking shed or whatever, I accept that they might get fed up of the same surroudings every day, but submit that the routine is no more oppressive than humans going to work, sitting at home etc.

Animals however do not understand the abstract concept that by living on a farm they are unfree. Really they have it better than humans in this respect...

Also by your argument that chickens can't count their eggs - does that also mean we should kill humans who can't count? People with mental illnesses, or a disability?


No, it means we can take eggs laid by hens and they will be none the wiser and continue to brood. In this case the point about separation from young is specious because it plainly does not cause distress to the hens. For a cow separated from her calf who then has to have her tits pumped by a machine every morning I am on your side.
Trololol c'mon dude I'm obviously kidding
Reply 117
Avatar for JD1lla
JD1lla
3
That's the problem with society. People like you sit behind their keyboard and bash away. Comparing rapists and paedophiles to meat eaters is so extreme, I think you don't actually believe it. You wouldn't dare say that to someone in person. You make offensive posts on the internet because you can...but in person you don't stand up for what you believe in. I've seen other lovely vege/vegans criticize your approach. It's hypocritical. I can deal with being called a savage. But to be compared to with a paedophile? That's a disgrace and should not be allowed. Thats an abuse of your right to free speech.
I mean Pythagoras didn't exist, so...
And also other than that, while I kind of endorse veganism, I think the fact that there are so many smart people who have thought about it and decided not to be vegetarian/vegan is a good indication that we should exercise scepticism.

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