Term Limit for Abortion

I just want to quote and reiterate this post to the dozen or so posters who just blanked it to continue an argument about if the foetus is viable or not. The reason we have late term abortions is to ensure quality of life, not because some nimby couldnt make up there mind for almost 6 months as this is a small irrelevant minority of late term abortions.

Besides even after exiting the womb foetus's arnt self aware! Hell babies are unable to understand their own existance until 2 or 3 years, so the foetus, regardless of how far along is a non-person. So I say again, even in the minority of late term abortions where the foetus is perfectly healthy, the pregnant mother has taken months to make the conscious decision that she doesnt want that child. So forcing an unloved child into the world is not only unfair on the mother (and father; a group frequently ignored in cases like this) but is also cruel to the child being forced into the world where nobody wants to care for it.

Do you have any evidence for this...?

So you would support the termination of an anaesthetised person (if someone wanted it to happen) because they are not self-aware, cannot reason, and has not interest in continuing to live?

Likewise you would support the termination of a newly born (if the mother wanted it to happen), because again, it is not self-aware, cannot reason and therefore has no interest in continuing to live?

So at 9 months? And how about a few days post birth? Is it okay then based on your above reasoning?

Yeah,

https://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.psychology.emory.edu/cognition/rochat/lab/fivelevels.pdf&sa=U&ved=0CA4QFjABahUKEwjdpcjej93IAhXGthQKHaJKDnM&sig2=2OG05wzfvtaRf3bvwuu4Ew&usg=AFQjCNHbxacTl3rm8SagbzK82VKII21YfA

Its an extremely dry read, scroll down to section 2.3, after rereading I found I missquoted slightly. Its actually 18months (1.5 years) onwards where self recognition occurs (what some define as self awareness) whilst continued development with true emotional self awareness occuring around 24 months (2 years) with continued emotional development into adolescence (~13 years).

You're failing to see the gaping error in your reasoning. Bodily autonomy is NOT absolute, s.

I would say limit to 12 weeks, unless factors that pose severe health risk to the mother or child, or tests reveal severe disabilities in the baby.

Dont worry, I've read some pretty dry things (previously a law student). Although I'm not very knowledgeable about psychology, the paper does say that up until about 18 months infants don't pass the generally accepted litmus test for self-awareness.

Taking this at face value, what conclusion do we draw that's relevant to the thread? Is it okay to kill off young babies?

Why 12? You may as well set lower.

Dont worry, I've read some pretty dry things (previously a law student). Although I'm not very knowledgeable about psychology, the paper does say that up until about 18 months infants don't pass the generally accepted litmus test for self-awareness.

Taking this at face value, what conclusion do we draw that's relevant to the thread? Is it okay to kill off young babies?

This does seem like shifting the goal posts on your part, since it is different to what you wrote earlier saying that a foetus is "not self-aware, and cannot reason, and therefore has no interest in continuing to live" and "It's not, however, possible to inflict cruelty on a foetus by aborting it, because it is not sentient: it simply cannot object to being aborted"

Preference are subjective and vary between (and even within) individuals, so I don't see how they can be universalised to determine morality in the way you are talking.

Since I would not have wanted my preferences violated as a foetus, does that mean other people should not undergo that violation as a foetus, and therefore abortion should be illegal?

In what circumstances is such infanticide permissible? Why not on demand/without reason as you claim it should be with foeticide?

By the, I think your position is absolutely abhorrent.

12 sounded like a reasonable number.

Well, why? A baby cannot survive at 12 weeks, like at 20 weeks.

I wouldn't ban it completely, just reduce the time limit to 12 weeks.

The ONLY reason I wouldn't ban it is because women would probably still get unsafe illegal abortions. It is the lesser of two evils to provide safe access to abortion. At least then only one life is lost.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Where did I say it was absolute? I didn't.

The point was that both forced organ donation and forced pregnancy require the overriding of bodily autonomy. That was the point of the analogy. It was not that bodily autonomy is absolute.

Yes, and in one situation, that overriding can be justifiable in the interests of the rights of another, and in the other it can not be. The analogy doesn't work. Seriously, this isn't difficult.

That is the point of the analogy. If you support overriding bodily autonomy in one then you can support overriding bodily autonomy in another.

Another person could quite easily claim that forcibly taking away a kidney to save another life is "justifiable in the interests of the rights of another".

Simply stating "it can not be" is just opinion.