Was this girl raped?

That's a completely different scenario. By that time consent has already been given.

Reply 43

I don't believe the partner needs constant affirmation of consent every second of the act. If it's been given at the beginning, then the following acts are consensual.

Reply 44

drbluebox

19

As stated context plays a part, like she could of planned to sleep with him before she was drunk or when was barely tipsy, he could of still raped her in the sense she was out of it even if she knew what was happening but just didnt care.

I knew a girl who used to text me every weekend wanting me to meet her in club(text me hours before) and I knew she wanted to sleep with me, the more she drank the more forward she was such as coming up to me when I was sitting down and grinding against me or even asking me to take her home, in fact the first time we met I had to walk her home and she stripped off in front of me and asked me to get in bed with her.

Eventually she invited me round hers one night as her sister had bought me a present and her sister locked me in a room with her after she passed out, I slept on the floor and the next morning I heard her get up and talk to her sister "I must of had sex with him last night as I am all wet, I hope dan doesnt find out" (who I then found out 6 months after meeting her was her fiance)

It never even crossed her mind she was raped, in fact we never had sex at all in reality.

Reply 45

Anonymous #4

Original post by Jonny360

Drunk sex isnt rape.

I think when you are drunk you are not in the right state of mind to consent. That's what I've heard, regardless if it was a male or female victim.

Also, just because she laughed about it, doesn't mean she is okay with it. I have a friend, and I personally, joke about it, but that's just our way of coping with it.

But if she consented to it, don't be a white knight for her.

Reply 46

drbluebox

19

Original post by Anonymous

I think when you are drunk you are not in the right state of mind to consent. That's what I've heard, regardless if it was a male or female victim.

Also, just because she laughed about it, doesn't mean she is okay with it. I have a friend, and I personally, joke about it, but that's just our way of coping with it.

But if she consented to it, don't be a white knight for her.

What people get at though is if a woman has had even say a shot of weak drink that means she has alcohol in her system therefore it may affect her judgement so if the next morning she claims rape because he had as much as 1 weak shot it means she had some alcohol.

And either way people see the man as taking advantage, if he has had no drinks and gets with a girl who may have had 1 he is taking advantage, if he has had a few and hes tipsy and goes home with a girl his judgement is clouded therefore it means he is at fault since he didnt have a clear head they can argue he misinterpreted her actions therefore it can be said he raped.

Its all about shaming men, though people will argue its about shaming women.

Years ago you would hear about men waking up to a girl and regretting it, that would imply he wouldnt get with her if he was sober but people just laughed and got on with it, a woman in the same scenario is seen as potentially raped so man get the worst end of it.

Reply 47

Original post by Jonny360

Haha aren't you so funny and clever with your original fedora joke and all!

What stereotype am I? Btw I've never once worn a fedora.

Oh yeah and you weren't the epitome of quick wit with your "white knight" jibe?

You are exactly the type of person who uses the term "white night". That is what I meant.

Also, you didn't answer my question. What is explicit consent? You admitted it hasn't got to be verbal.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 48

Original post by Twinpeaks

Oh yeah and you weren't the epitome of quick whit with your "white knight" jibe?

You are exactly the type of person who uses the term "white night".

Also, you didn't my question. What is explicit consent? You admitted it hasn't got to be verbal.

Really depends on the scenario but body language and signals are key indicators

Reply 49

Original post by Jonny360

Really depends on the scenario but body language and signals are key indicators

But body language is very difficult to be "explicit". Consent is very rarely "explicit".

You said-

"If someone consents to sex (meaning they say yes, knowingly referrring to sex) then its not rape, no matter drunk they are."

What kind of explicit consent, can a person who is highly intoxicated give? You said "indicators such as body language", but that's not explicit at all.

Reply 50

Katty3

16

Original post by Rakas21

A very anti-male law if you ask me.

No. If you are unable to consent to sex, you have not consented to sex. It isn't about gender, it's about consent.

For example, if I said that I wanted to have sex with a person then fainted before having sex, the person who I was with is not allowed to use me for sex whilst I was unconscious. That is called rape.

Another example, if I said I wanted to go on a roller coaster but fainted before getting on, it wouldn't be right to strap me in anyway because I gave preemptive consent. I would be rightly a bit annoyed if someone did that.

If someone is paralytic then they cannot consent. You don't have a right to sex with that person, even if whilst sober they said they wanted sex. If someone is unable to consent to sex at that moment, having sex with them is rape.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 51

Original post by Twinpeaks

But body language is very difficult to be "explicit". Consent is very rarely "explicit". [1]

You said-

"If someone consents to sex (meaning they say yes, knowingly referrring to sex) then its not rape, no matter drunk they are."

What kind of explicit consent, can a person who is highly intoxicated give? [2] You said "indicators such as body language", but that's not explicit at all.

[1] Hence why this is such a tricky and controversial issue.

[2] They could initiate sexual contact for a start

Reply 52

Original post by Jonny360

[1] Hence why this is such a tricky and controversial issue.

[2] They could initiate sexual contact for a start

I think you're forgetting what we were initially discussing, because you're backtracking now.

Reply 53

Original post by Twinpeaks

I think you're forgetting what we were initially discussing, because you're backtracking now.

No I don't think so, I just haven't been paying you too much attention. This is really getting quite boring now. I feel like this reply should be my last.

Reply 54

Original post by Jonny360

No I don't think so, I just haven't been paying you too much attention. This is really getting quite boring now. I feel like this reply should be my last.

Because you're completey ignorant about a very important topic, but are perfectly content in staying that way. Ignorance is bless.

Reply 55

Original post by Twinpeaks

Because you're completey ignorant about a very important topic, but are perfectly content in staying that way. Ignorance is bless.

And I could say the same thing right back to you. But Im going now, you've bored me.

Reply 56

drbluebox

19

Original post by Katty3

No. If you are unable to consent to sex, you have not consented to sex. It isn't about gender, it's about consent.

For example, if I said that I wanted to have sex with a person then fainted before having sex, the person who I was with is not allowed to use me for sex whilst I was unconscious. That is called rape.

Another example, if I said I wanted to go on a roller coaster but fainted before getting on, it wouldn't be right to strap me in anyway because I gave preemptive consent. I would be rightly a bit annoyed if someone did that.

If someone is paralytic then they cannot consent. You don't have a right to sex with that person, even if whilst sober they said they wanted sex. If someone is unable to consent to sex at that moment, having sex with them is rape.

Posted from TSR Mobile

I have been raped/sexually assaulted at least twice then as both times a few years apart I walked a girl home and slept on her sofa to find out she had her way with me when I was sleeping.

I don't disagree with you but in the real world every situation is different someone can consent and then later be so out of it they dont even realise they are having sex I would not call that rape, if they were unconcious its a harder matter though, and even more so as it can be that someones inhibitions drop when they drink so they wanted sex but would never of slept with the person they did if sober, that doesnt mean a man has taken advantage,

Rape rules are difficult as I have heard guys get some nasty comments if say both people are sober and consent and girl changes her mind in the middle of sex and guy doesnt hear her its rape as she has said no even though he never heard it, or girls can say no and its just as a tease, I have stopped when a girl has said no in middle of sex before to then be told "why have you stopped"

The main issue is men are the penetrators that means they are the ones accused, unless a woman strapped on something it would never be the same thing.

Reply 57

Original post by Jonny360

And I could say the same thing right back to you. But Im going now, you've bored me.

You couldn't even remember the initial argument.

You said "drunk sex is not rape".

You then went on to say that if someone gives they're consent at one point, then they cannot be raped, regardless of how drunk they are, and regardless of what happens from then onwards. Basically, you said that once a person gives their consent, you can do whatever you like with them, because once given, consent cannot be retracted.

You specified this as "explicit consent". I told you that sex is very often not verbally consented to, so asked what you meant by "explicit consent". With you coming back with "indicators such as body language". So in other words, you concede that consent is very often not explicit. So how can you use that as a sole determinator, of whether a person was raped or not?

That makes no sense.

Stop disguising your sheer ignorance as boredom.

Reply 58