University is just a product being sold to young people, degrees are worthless now
Almost everyone is doing a degree now, and I think that University is something that everyone thinks / has been told that they need to do, not just for the degree but for the experience, and I think it is just a product being sold to us that we have been brainwashed into thinking we need, when in reality once we enter the job market there will be so many other people with a degree that ours will be pretty much useless (unless it's an exceptional degree like medicine). I think the most successful of the young people of our generation will be the entrepeneurs and creators, especially in the tech industry, not the people that have a degree,
(edited 8 years ago)
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I guess the issue is that if basically everyone has a degree now, if someone didn't, then they'd just have less chance of getting a job because they'd be "out-competed" by all the people with degrees.
Original post by Chief Wiggum
I guess the issue is that if basically everyone has a degree now, if someone didn't, then they'd just have less chance of getting a job because they'd be "out-competed" by all the people with degrees.
I guess, but unless you have a very valuable degree like medicine you are most likely to end up earning a pretty average salary, because there is such a huge supply of people with these 'skills' (degrees) now. So there is question of is the huge debt really worth it
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by zigglr
Glad to hear someone speaking the truth.
Original post by zigglr
I guess, but unless you have a very valuable degree like medicine you are most likely to end up earning a pretty average salary, because there is such a huge supply of people with these 'skills' (degrees) now. So there is question of is the huge debt really worth it
Missing the point. If the only difference between you and the rest of candidates is a degree, you are losing there. Plus, getting a degree is financially feasible (you don't have to pay anything) and intellectually feasible (you don't have to be a genius or a clever person to get a degree). So it is hard to find reasons not to do a degree, even if having it is useless.
I think they are useful in that they essentially teach you how to think for yourself and judge information according to its merits.
Though, they really aren't worth 9k per year IMO.
Post graduate study seems a lot like a money factory for uni's too.
Though, they really aren't worth 9k per year IMO.
Post graduate study seems a lot like a money factory for uni's too.
Original post by zigglr
Almost everyone is doing a degree now, and I think that University is something that everyone thinks / has been told that they need to do, not just for the degree but for the experience, and I think it is just a product being sold to us that we have been brainwashed into thinking we need, when in reality once we enter the job market there will be so many other people with a degree that ours will be pretty much useless (unless it's an exceptional degree like medicine). I think the most successful of the young people of our generation will be the entrepeneurs and creators, especially in the tech industry, not the people that have a degree,
University degrees are for people who are passionate about a cause or subject and wan't to voluntarily specialize in that field.
Many of the today's candidates just apply for name sake reasons. For those people yes it's definitely a wasteful product.
Original post by zigglr
Almost everyone is doing a degree now, and I think that University is something that everyone thinks / has been told that they need to do, not just for the degree but for the experience, and I think it is just a product being sold to us that we have been brainwashed into thinking we need, when in reality once we enter the job market there will be so many other people with a degree that ours will be pretty much useless (unless it's an exceptional degree like medicine). I think the most successful of the young people of our generation will be the entrepeneurs and creators, especially in the tech industry, not the people that have a degree,
A degree isn't worthless.
A worthless degree is worthless.
There are still plenty of degrees that are hugely valuable within important sectors, pretty much any STEM degree for a start, where a highly educated workforce is of great benefit.
The problem is that we are moving into a period where jobs that would never have previously required a degree are all of a sudden using "has a degree" as a default requirement.
We have moved into a culture where everybody is expected to go to University, where our entire education system is designed to spend ten years telling a child that they have to go to University to make anything of themselves, and that is completely and utterly ridiculous.
University should be purely for the academic elite, for people who want to go into a field where a degree provides them with knowledge or skills that will prepare them for a career in that field, and where they couldn't realistically learn everything that they would need to through any other means.
University should not be for people who aren't ever going to end up in that kind of career, it shouldn't be for people who want to go to University for "the experience", or for people who are academically weak, but unfortunately that's what it's become.
I don't think they are worthless. Even though I never finished my course, the content which I taught I have found invaluable for my current position. But I would agree that there are many degrees out there which are worthless.
What led you to this conclusion OP? Observation or life experience?
A degree isn't worthless whatever you do. It's great life experience learning about a subject you have chosen and employers appreciate that too.
Not worth the money, though. You can do a free course (e.g. MIT OpenCourseWare) and get the same education for free. Education should be free as a right.
Not worth the money, though. You can do a free course (e.g. MIT OpenCourseWare) and get the same education for free. Education should be free as a right.
When I was a kid University was hard to get into, that was why when I had psychologist reports when I was like 7, 9 and 12 that said I was advanced and I should go to university it was an accomplishment but sadly by the time I got old enough for uni I just missed the free funding by a few years so it became grants and loans so I picked college instead which was fantastic for a 16 year old as it improved my skills and was less intense whilst still getting a grant and bursary rather than a loan.
By the time I went to uni in my mid 20's everyone was going and I felt a small fish plus had a lot of hateful comments from people telling me I was too old to be at uni and working with people fresh out of school who whilst not as bright as me could handle the workload better as it was fresh in ther mind.
Anyway yes university today is more of a life experience, I used to hate it when I went that I was told it was more about extra cirricular activities on your CV than your actual work so it meant people who had zero interest in say helping kids would do volunteer work for a kids charity just to fit it on their cv and I would apply knowing I had a bad childhood out of care to be told the spaces were filled.
Or I did a media degree which people say is worthless, they would advertise for runners for tv stations and they would get filled by people on non media courses used to really get to me.
By the time I went to uni in my mid 20's everyone was going and I felt a small fish plus had a lot of hateful comments from people telling me I was too old to be at uni and working with people fresh out of school who whilst not as bright as me could handle the workload better as it was fresh in ther mind.
Anyway yes university today is more of a life experience, I used to hate it when I went that I was told it was more about extra cirricular activities on your CV than your actual work so it meant people who had zero interest in say helping kids would do volunteer work for a kids charity just to fit it on their cv and I would apply knowing I had a bad childhood out of care to be told the spaces were filled.
Or I did a media degree which people say is worthless, they would advertise for runners for tv stations and they would get filled by people on non media courses used to really get to me.
I think there is an element of truth to this.
Ludicrous government grandstanding (wanting 50% of the population to go to university) combined with the lack of high quality apprenticeships has probably led to many young people feeling pressured to go to university. Even if it clearly isn't the right place for them (be that academically or otherwise), there seems to be somewhat of a stigma associated with not going - if everyone else is going, then why aren't you?
However, I disagree with the notion that degrees are "worthless". Many careers now have a glass ceiling put in place, where a lack of a degree will instantly discount you. People used to work their way up from the shop floor to become managers; that doesn't happen anymore unless you have a degree (generally speaking anyway). There are still countless professions that require degrees in the sciences and in finance, amongst other vocations such as law and the civil service. To make a blanket statement, that degrees are worthless, just doesn't reflect the reality of the graduate economy.
What instead needs to be looked at is why certain groups of graduates are struggling, rather than telling people not to go to uni. Degree subject is one factor - highly unconventional subjects, or the myriad of "events management" courses are likely to leave graduates struggling to convince an employer of the weight of their degree. Even traditional subjects such as history have few direct career options for the average graduate. And as much as TSR loves STEM, it is a lack of skilled STEM graduates that is an issue - Computer Science for instance has the highest unemployment rate of all degrees, largely due to a lack of programming proficiency among its graduates (or so I've been told at least.)
But there are other factors too - students who lack work experience are highly unlikely to find graduate employment these days, no matter how in demand their subject is. Graduates with little interesting to say in an interview (such as involvement with a society or an extra-curricular) are also likely to struggle to break into professional jobs. And yes, in some sectors, the university studied at will be a big factor - there are thousands of students studying law at institutions where they are highly unlikely to find the type of work they envisaged themselves in prior to starting their course.
In a nutshell, degrees aren't worthless, but I do agree that there's a very large chunk of students being railroaded into going to university when there should be better options available for them.
Ludicrous government grandstanding (wanting 50% of the population to go to university) combined with the lack of high quality apprenticeships has probably led to many young people feeling pressured to go to university. Even if it clearly isn't the right place for them (be that academically or otherwise), there seems to be somewhat of a stigma associated with not going - if everyone else is going, then why aren't you?
However, I disagree with the notion that degrees are "worthless". Many careers now have a glass ceiling put in place, where a lack of a degree will instantly discount you. People used to work their way up from the shop floor to become managers; that doesn't happen anymore unless you have a degree (generally speaking anyway). There are still countless professions that require degrees in the sciences and in finance, amongst other vocations such as law and the civil service. To make a blanket statement, that degrees are worthless, just doesn't reflect the reality of the graduate economy.
What instead needs to be looked at is why certain groups of graduates are struggling, rather than telling people not to go to uni. Degree subject is one factor - highly unconventional subjects, or the myriad of "events management" courses are likely to leave graduates struggling to convince an employer of the weight of their degree. Even traditional subjects such as history have few direct career options for the average graduate. And as much as TSR loves STEM, it is a lack of skilled STEM graduates that is an issue - Computer Science for instance has the highest unemployment rate of all degrees, largely due to a lack of programming proficiency among its graduates (or so I've been told at least.)
But there are other factors too - students who lack work experience are highly unlikely to find graduate employment these days, no matter how in demand their subject is. Graduates with little interesting to say in an interview (such as involvement with a society or an extra-curricular) are also likely to struggle to break into professional jobs. And yes, in some sectors, the university studied at will be a big factor - there are thousands of students studying law at institutions where they are highly unlikely to find the type of work they envisaged themselves in prior to starting their course.
In a nutshell, degrees aren't worthless, but I do agree that there's a very large chunk of students being railroaded into going to university when there should be better options available for them.
Original post by drbluebox
When I was a kid University was hard to get into, that was why when I had psychologist reports when I was like 7, 9 and 12 that said I was advanced and I should go to university it was an accomplishment but sadly by the time I got old enough for uni I just missed the free funding by a few years so it became grants and loans so I picked college instead which was fantastic for a 16 year old as it improved my skills and was less intense whilst still getting a grant and bursary rather than a loan.
By the time I went to uni in my mid 20's everyone was going and I felt a small fish plus had a lot of hateful comments from people telling me I was too old to be at uni and working with people fresh out of school who whilst not as bright as me could handle the workload better as it was fresh in ther mind.
Anyway yes university today is more of a life experience, I used to hate it when I went that I was told it was more about extra cirricular activities on your CV than your actual work so it meant people who had zero interest in say helping kids would do volunteer work for a kids charity just to fit it on their cv and I would apply knowing I had a bad childhood out of care to be told the spaces were filled.
Or I did a media degree which people say is worthless, they would advertise for runners for tv stations and they would get filled by people on non media courses used to really get to me.
By the time I went to uni in my mid 20's everyone was going and I felt a small fish plus had a lot of hateful comments from people telling me I was too old to be at uni and working with people fresh out of school who whilst not as bright as me could handle the workload better as it was fresh in ther mind.
Anyway yes university today is more of a life experience, I used to hate it when I went that I was told it was more about extra cirricular activities on your CV than your actual work so it meant people who had zero interest in say helping kids would do volunteer work for a kids charity just to fit it on their cv and I would apply knowing I had a bad childhood out of care to be told the spaces were filled.
Or I did a media degree which people say is worthless, they would advertise for runners for tv stations and they would get filled by people on non media courses used to really get to me.
You studied media studies? how did it work out?
Original post by Brit_Miller
A degree isn't worthless whatever you do. It's great life experience learning about a subject you have chosen and employers appreciate that too.
Not worth the money, though. You can do a free course (e.g. MIT OpenCourseWare) and get the same education for free. Education should be free as a right.
Not worth the money, though. You can do a free course (e.g. MIT OpenCourseWare) and get the same education for free. Education should be free as a right.
Education is free till you are a proper adult.
Exactly, a YouTuber also said the same thing.
Original post by Bill_Gates
You studied media studies? how did it work out?
I actually worked in a radio station before even starting there, and did work experience in a paper, but for media studies college is far superior than university since university expects you to do everything yourself and has like 10-18 hours a week of lectures whilst college was 9.4 at least 3 days a week if not every day bar a hour off here and there as a study period and had trips to things like cinema or museums included.
At university level it was useless, just a case of maybe watching a film now and again and discussing it or being told to study the history of media in all forms then left to do what you wanted.
the university lectures for the most part could of just been handouts, whilst on the college level it was actual involvement.
As the number of graduates increases every year - it becomes more and more important to do the right degree (STEM subjects, Computer Science, Law, Accountancy, Medicine etc). Then get the right attitude - the world does not owe you a living. Perhaps you can get yourself on a "graduate programme" run by one of the big corporates and you'll be fast tracked to good financial position in no time! Easy? 
Original post by Newgolddream
As the number of graduates increases every year - it becomes more and more important to do the right degree (STEM subjects, Computer Science, Law, Accountancy, Medicine etc). Then get the right attitude - the world does not owe you a living. Perhaps you can get yourself on a "graduate programme" run by one of the big corporates and you'll be fast tracked to good financial position in no time! Easy?
I miss the old days when a employer would pay you through university as long as you worked for 5 years (or maybe 3 years cant remember) at the end, they even paid the fees and a wage whilst at uni.
I remember seeing one for a local factory when I was 19 but feeling I didnt want tied down to the job after, then the factory closed 3 years later so I could of gone to a course I liked and got fees paid and chose employer after (at the time the degree would of given a lot of job offers)
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