Hilarious anti-semitic RT propaganda

Ha, very true. A lot of their supposed news output comes across like tinfoil-hat ready conspiradroid tosh, so it's hard to tell the difference.

Islamofasicsts? Oh do me a favour.
I'm incredibly outspoken on the UK's relationship with Saudi Arabia, I am incredibly critical fo Hezbollah and Hamas but you seem to think it's a football match where you have to choose a side.

I've not 'turned on you' but you have an unhealthy obsession with Jews. You strike me as a wannabe Jew.

Being raised and brought up as Jewish, I can tell you that within the Jewish community there is a HUGE victim mentality. So many think everyone hates us and massively goes out looking for isolated incidents of antisemitism and blowing them out of all proportion. Many says things such as 'anti zionism is just masked antisemitism' in fact that's the number one line of defence.

Now you seem to be quite Islamaphobic to be perfectly honest and for some reason share in that victim mentality that so many have. Quite frankly we can stand on our own two feet, we can take care of ourselves.

Cheers.

The Guardianista's view of the world is now even more black and white than the average right-wing conservative's. They love to placate others about how people are complex, and that everyone has good in them. Oh yes they'll surely believe that members of criminal gangs (as long as they're from impoverished areas), pederasts, and Islamic extremists have good in them. Yes, the Guardianista will love to tell you that no one is pure evil....

EXCEPT:

Israelis
Bankers
Rupert Murdoch
Disney
CEOs of multinational companies
Zionists
Fox News
Men's Rights Activists
Fundamentalist Christians
The Daily Telegraph
Pro-lifers
Tea Party supporters
Sky News
The Tories
The Republican Party
The Sun
UKIP
Pornographers
Islamophobes
The Daily Mail
Libertarians
Conservatives
Capitalists
Global warming deniers
Homophobes
White supremacists (unless from an impoverished background)
Mothers who choose to stay at home
UKIP
Non-organic farmers
Grammar school students and teachers
Private school students and teachers
SUV drivers
Oil companies
Gun owners

I'm not sure what his problem is? He accuses me of being obsessed with anti-semitism (even though it hardly predominates in the subjects I discuss). And yet I have barely seen any comment he makes where he does not pull out the "I'm Jewish therefore I get to be the arbiter of acceptability on views of Israel".Gilad Atzmon is also Jewish, and he's an outright Holocaust denier and a very clear self-hater. His Judaism is hardly a conclusive argument against his opponent

He's really emotionally unstable, whenever I see his posts it's either him making really personal insults towards other users or him giving his 'I'm Jewish and therefore my criticism of Israel has more validity' speech.

@Bornblue

Well said.

He called me a "wannabe Jew" due to the fact I take some interest in my part-Jewish heritage. I think he has some issues around his identity (as on the far left they often have to prove they are a "good Jew" and thus be "more Palestinian than the Palestinians" ).

I think my response to him three comments up (comment 22) made the point and hopefully he will be less inclined to another one of these little interventions

Could not have put it better myself. They will defend Islamic terrorists, IRA terrorists, murderers, perhaps the most evil scum in this world but they regard someone like myself- a UKIP voter as the worst evil that has tread foot on this earth. Strange how their minds work

They are also astonishingly hypocritical on foreign policy. During the 2000s when the US had many troops in Iraq and they were fighting Al-Qaeda in Iraq (the ISIS precursor organisation), many on the far left praised the "Iraqi resistance" and justified their Islamist ideology on the basis that an authoritarian regime would cause radicalisation. They also criticised the US whenever it bombed targets, saying bombing always creates more terrorists.

But suddenly, with Assad and the Russian intervention, they depict themselves as being emphatically opposed to "Islamist terrorism". They deny the fact that the authoritarian regime of Assad may have radicalised the "resistance" (along with the fact Assad released thousands of Islamists from his jails in 2011 to create a jihadi resistance he could use to tar the rest).

And now that Russia is bombing targets in Syria (very few ISIS targets, mainly FSA and other groups), they are positively shrieking with delight at this bombing, frothing at the mouth saying "Yeah! Kill the terrorists!" and claiming that their bombing is extremely effective (even though the Russian Air Force has bombed four Syrian hospitals, that unlike the Americans the Russian Air Force has been dropping unguided bombs from 15,000 feet that are pretty much guaranteed not to actually hit their target and can only really be used for terror bombing of civilian populations).

Their hypocrisy is mindblowing. They will adopt any position, support any fascist/terrorist group, as long as that group is opposed to the Americans.

If anything, you are the one who thinks this is about choosing sides, and thus you criticise Israel in the most vitriolic, conspiratorial terms.



You're swinging wildly, and making yourself look silly. If I wanted to be Jewish I could, given my descent comes from my Mum's side. I don't want to be Jewish, but it's perfectly natural to take an interest in my heritage. I've travelled to Israel several times and I have friends there, so naturally I am much more sensible about viewing them as people rather than "Evil Zionist oppressors".

I'm perfectly comfortable being predominantly Anglo-Saxon wasp with some Jewish blood and an atheist/anti-theist worldview, and I'm perfectly comfortable with my interaction with my Jewish and Israeli friends. I also have a Saudi friend who had dinner with two of my Israeli friends when they were in London, and we had a brilliant time and the drinking went late into the night. That's because we are all emphatic atheists and we oppose all forms of clerical fascism. I suppose that kind of fraternal connection, irrespective of background, gender, sexuality and based on ideas is foreign to your parochial sensibilities.

It is notable that my exploration of part of my heritage, the fact I'm non Jewish and I have Jewish (and culturally Muslim) friends seems to disturb and anger you. Merely pointing out those things I've down caused you to call me a "wannabe Jew". It reminds me of how southern racists in the US would sometimes call progressives a "****** lover" for having black friends.

Nowhere near a majority of my posts are about Judaism or Israel. But pretty much every post I've seen you make on this subject starts out "As a Jew", as if that is relevant. It clearly weighs heavily on you.



What you call a victim mentality, I call an understandable psychological defence mechanism given six million Jews were slaughtered in an attempted genocide in living memory. That's not some origin myth or a novel, it actually happened. There are still people alive today who were in the camps. It is understandable, given the extreme hatred many people have against Jews, for them to be quite sensitive (and sometimes oversensitve). But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get you, and that is the case with Jews.



When you say "We", I'm sorry but you are an individual. You aren't all Jews. I'm quite happy to speak to my Jewish friends and cousins about their views. You don't get a veto on what other people think.

And unfortunately, like many on the far left, you are so desperate to prove you are a "good Jew" (in the eyes of your far left friends) that you go far beyond what is rational in criticising Israel and now in criticising Jewish people too. You obviously have some issues surrounding your sense of your own Judaism, I'm not going to delve into that.

But equally, you shouldn't inflict that on the rest of us.

Exactly, he should either stick to the argument at hand or piss off.

You actually do have a point; two days ago there was a thread claiming that IS/Daesh was an Israeli/CIA conspiracy, today a thread today asking if Israel has killed more Muslims than the Nazis did Jews as well as this very thread, there are clearly many people who hold negative feeling towards the Jewish people.

They are also astonishingly hypocritical on foreign policy. During the 2000s when the US had many troops in Iraq and they were fighting Al-Qaeda in Iraq (the ISIS precursor organisation), many on the far left praised the "Iraqi resistance" and justified their Islamist ideology on the basis that an authoritarian regime would cause radicalisation. They also criticised the US whenever it bombed targets, saying bombing always creates more terrorists.

But suddenly, with Assad and the Russian intervention, they depict themselves as being emphatically opposed to "Islamist terrorism". They deny the fact that the authoritarian regime of Assad may have radicalised the "resistance" (along with the fact Assad released thousands of Islamists from his jails in 2011 to create a jihadi resistance he could use to tar the rest).

That said, I think a small part of Putin/RT's coverage is worthwhile, if only for the fact that it gives a different view - whatever the motives. For that reason, I regularly skim across the propaganda of CCTV, France TV, RT, CNN, etc, just to get a feel for what they are all saying. Even Vatican news can be interesting.

I'm not on the far left and I criticise Hamas and Hezbollah as I do Israel.
You like so many on the right

seem to think all Jews have a moral duty to support Israel

and you accuse anyone who dares speak out as being anti-Semitic

or a self - hating jew.

But as a Jew I find it immensely patronising and unhelpful for you to take an absolute obsession with anti semitism to the point that you accuse anyone who speaks out against Israel as being anti Semitic

You have no right to speak on behalf of Jews, just as I don't. And you have no right to undermine real anti semitism by throwing around the accusation like it's going out of fashion.

SignFrom Dog you can be very antagonistic and you do bring up the anti-antisemitism a lot and accuse mostly everyone of it due to affiliation with "the antisemitic left". Or when they are a Jewish lefty like BornBlue they are adopting some kind of grovelling approach to be aloud in and need to prove their antisemitic credentials by supporting Hamas and that he is a useful Jewish idiot... The kind of problems you talk about do exist but you just go into the other end of it and accuse everyone of being racist against Jews.

I didn't even realize BornBlue was Jewish until he brought it up one time when someone called him antisemitic for criticizing Israel. Which, if I was Jewish, I'd bring up a lot when faced with such accusations.

I agree with that.

But I want to be able to say I don't support America or Israel bombing Hospitals, or god forbid disagree with you, without being accused of supporting Putin's Russia, supporting ISIS or being antisemitic which is what often happens.

We're just out of the gates and you're already tripping over your shoelaces. I'm a socialist. But I'm also not a member of the regressive left; I oppose all forms of fascism, especially the clerical fascism of Islam. I also oppose the far-right rabbis of the settlements who incited the murder of Rabin and hanker after a Greater Israel.



I don't think that and I've never said that. I think all people should look at the Israel-Palestine conflict with empathy for both sides, and an understanding of their respective legitimate claims and grievances. Unlike many on the left, I do not think that only the Palestinians have legitimate grievances, and I'm not willing to compare Israelis to Nazis or say that Zionism is apartheid or fascism when it clearly is not.



This thread had nothing to do with Israel at the start. I pointed out that it is anti-semitic to assert that speaking Hebrew is sinister and evidence of a conspiracy. You then rushed in all guns blazing, with the usual "As a Jew, I think.." and making unsupportable accusations against me. In your haste, you failed to actually determine what the discussion was about or whether the accusation of anti-semitism was justifiable.



You keep bringing up your Jewishness as if to say that being a Jew means your opinion on Israel is automatically correct. Equally, you accuse me of being a "wannabe Jew" simply for (1) taking an interest in my heritage, and (2) having Israeli friends. That seems like the equal and opposite accusation to that of self-hating Jew



You are too emotionally invested in this debate if you find it personally patronising. And I don't accuse anyone who speaks out against Israel as being anti-semitic, you are resorting to outrageous hyperbole and simply making things up because your argument is on such shakey ground.

As a progressive it is entirely legitimate for me to emphatically oppose anti-semitism. It is a pernicious and deeply dangerous form of hatred, and as an individual Jewish person, you don't get to excuse it or say that you don't appreciate someone else taking a strong stand against it. Your arguments might have more weight if I did actually accuse anyone who speaks against Israel of being an anti-semite, but that has never been my position and your comments sound a bit desperate in claiming I did.

When Israel forged British passports to assassinate a Hamas man, when it spies on its allies, when it permits further settlement, I speak out against it in the strongest possible terms. I have clearly said before, in public and online (including on websites like Harry's Place where the crowed is pro-Israel generally) that I think Israel often abuses the friendship of its allies, that it is sometimes ungrateful and that is is not doing nearly enough to bring about a settlement.

I have never claimed any and all criticism of Israel is anti-semitic (though a heck of a lot of it is motivated by it). I am perfectly comfortable as a non-Jew with Jewish heritage taking an interest in my ancestors and what they believed. I am perfectly comfortable having Jewish and Israeli friends. And as a progressive I am perfectly comfortable calling out real anti-semitism when I see it, because everyone has an interest in tackling it.

I see that there are some in the Jewish community who are hypersensitive, even oversensitive, to it. There are some on the Israeli and Jewish right who call criticism of the settlements anti-semitic, and claim all Arabs hate Jews and so Israel should treat them as they wish. I find that revolting. But I'm not going to be shamed out of standing up for Israel's right to exist or calling out real anti-semites and bigots on the regressive left.



You seem to have forgotten what this thread is actually about, and what brought about the accusation. If you say that I don't have a right as a non-Jew to call out anti-semitism, then why are you allowed to make accusations of "Islamophobia"?

You're whole mantra and narrative is that 'the left is the home of anti-semitism'.

Yet when you find a lefty who dislikes Israel/zionism, to fit with your mantra you go for the ' oh well you're just trying to be accepted...' Or some rubbish. No, I am giving my own opinion regardless of my religion.

If you want to see real anti semitism take a look at the far-right parties in Europe. Take a look at the far right parties here such as the BNP who denied the Holocaust. Anti-semitism predominantly comes from the right, not the left.

Not only am I on the left, but I'm far more authentically of the left than the numerous posers and conspiracy theorists who crowd out that space these days. Unlike them, I actually have a genuine interest in and commitment to historical materialism and the dialectic; understanding history through trends, movements, material forces rather than the conspiratorial pseudo-occult and faintly Manichaean enthusiasms that characterise many on the left these days.



I typically say the far left, not the left. And yes, I don't see this as a football match where I only attack the opposition. I am critical of those on my own side because many of them are fascist sympathisers. I am not going to be silent when a leftist praises that homophobic douchebag Putin just because we both happen to be on the left side of the spectrum.



You say "Yet when you find a lefty". Do I say that in all conversations to all left-wing people? Or did you mean just you? You keep making up positions I've never actually adopted. I'm sorry but your arguments are incredibly weak and my patience is wavering. You keep consructing strawmen to knock them down; that isn't an indicator of intelligence or sincerity, it's first-class douchebaggery and I'm not going to keep arguing with someone who keeps making up positions I've never adopted in order to attack me.



Ah yes, the usual far-left justifications. They are happy to no-platform the BNP and (rightly) criticise them. But when someone repeats the blood libel and supports a charter that calls for the death of all Jews worldwide? That is absolutely fine and we will roll out the red carpet. Frankly, it's pathetic to try to distract attention from left-wing anti-semitism by saying "the right does it too".

The rest of your comment is just repeating the same fabricated nonsense and making up positions I've never had in order to justify your nonsense. I'm bored of it. I'll leave it to the good judgment of TSRians to determine whose position they feel to be more justified.

The left are not anti-semitic as you claim they are. And I don't know many on the left who love Putin as you claim.
I'm not saying 'the right does it too' - I'm saying genuine anti-semitism is largely exclusive to the right, not the left.

Anti zionism and anti-semitism are not connected. End of.

And anyone who makes out they are is merely trying to do what you do and disallow any criticism of ISrael and being 'anti-semtic'

You're making up my positions now, I do not support Putin or Hamas and criticse both heavily

But carry on with your mantra. Carry on slamming the left and turning a blind eye to those on the right. But let me say this, good luck if we ever see a rise of far-right parties again - then you'll see some real anti-semitism.

Exactly, he should either stick to the argument at hand or piss off.