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Leaving Islam/ telling my family I'm athiest?
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Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Not at all, the chinks are exposed by your inconsistent explanations. On the one hand you claim non believers are given this life and now are claiming that some believers are as well. This shows you have no consistent or logical explanations to explain this, jumping between opposite claims when it suits you.
Not really i never said that non believers are given this life, rather i said they work for this life, not the next.
Original post by emily Z
Not really i never said that non believers are given this life, rather i said they work for this life, not the next.
Your insinuation was clear, particularly in regards to the point of the muslims being beaten due to "sinning" which non-muslims should also suffer. Your subsequent claim that they are not judged by Islam's laws is false considering the Judgement Day narrative.
Emily Z demonstrates perfectly what the OP will face when the time comes for her to disclose leaving Islam.
This is the 'softer' side of peer-pressure in one form, as every believer thinks this is a personal test for them to keep her from leaving.
From what I understand through observation, the pressure and coercion from within the family and wider community extends to isolation, ostracism, denial of freedom, psychological fear, forced marriage, kidnapping and even violence. All of these are illegal in the U.K. and the OP has the full weight of U.K. law on her side.
The truly terrifying thing is that the instigators of these crimes not only believe they are justified, but that they are morally justified and in doing so, earning themselves 'gold stars' in exchange for paradise! Which is duplicitous as it says far more about self interest than altruism.
OP: seek advice from professional groups set up to help you with the challenges you face including how to claim protection as a last resort at border controls etc., if you suddenly find yourself whisked or sent away for a 'holiday' and potentially never seen again.
This is a very brave and courageous decision and my full respect goes to you. As others have said and I repeat, think this through carefully in order to protect your own best interests and secure the happy fulfilling life you deserve.
The very best of wishes and stay safe.
This is the 'softer' side of peer-pressure in one form, as every believer thinks this is a personal test for them to keep her from leaving.
From what I understand through observation, the pressure and coercion from within the family and wider community extends to isolation, ostracism, denial of freedom, psychological fear, forced marriage, kidnapping and even violence. All of these are illegal in the U.K. and the OP has the full weight of U.K. law on her side.
The truly terrifying thing is that the instigators of these crimes not only believe they are justified, but that they are morally justified and in doing so, earning themselves 'gold stars' in exchange for paradise! Which is duplicitous as it says far more about self interest than altruism.
OP: seek advice from professional groups set up to help you with the challenges you face including how to claim protection as a last resort at border controls etc., if you suddenly find yourself whisked or sent away for a 'holiday' and potentially never seen again.
This is a very brave and courageous decision and my full respect goes to you. As others have said and I repeat, think this through carefully in order to protect your own best interests and secure the happy fulfilling life you deserve.
The very best of wishes and stay safe.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Your insinuation was clear, particularly in regards to the point of the muslims being beaten due to "sinning" which non-muslims should also suffer. Your subsequent claim that they are not judged by Islam's laws is false considering the Judgement Day narrative.
I think i've already explained the first part of your paragraph.
And i've explained the 2nd part.
I'm not going to go back in circles like yourself , so if you have anything else to say, feel free to ask.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Your insinuation was clear, particularly in regards to the point of the muslims being beaten due to "sinning" which non-muslims should also suffer. Your subsequent claim that they are not judged by Islam's laws is false considering the Judgement Day narrative.
The fate of the muslims was already predicted in Hadith
Thauban reported that the messenger of Allah said: "It is near that the nations will call one another against you just as the eaters call one another to their dishes." Somebody asked: "Is this because we will be few in numbers that day?" He said: "Nay, but that day you shall be numerous, but you will be like the foam of the sea, and Allah will take the fear of you away from your enemies and will place weakness into your hearts." Somebody asked: "What is this weakness?" He said: "The love of the world and the dislike of death." (Abu Daud)
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
We didn't evolve from apes, we share a common ancestor with them. But this and the Big Bang are supported by tonnes of evidence, Islam isn't.
Some parts of the big bang theory I believe and it's even in the Quran but others I don't believe and there is not evidence for every single part of the theory. Plus I don't believe in the whole ancestor ape bull crap
Original post by emily Z
I think i've already explained the first part of your paragraph.
And i've explained the 2nd part.
I'm not going to go back in circles like yourself , so if you have anything else to say, feel free to ask.
And i've explained the 2nd part.
I'm not going to go back in circles like yourself , so if you have anything else to say, feel free to ask.
Nonsense, you have not explained yourself at all. Typical of many religionists unable to consolidate glaring holes in religious dogma, you have done nothing but provide hollow and contradictory justifications which don't fool anyone who doesn't have a vested interest in maintaining the veracity of an ancient ideology.
Original post by emily Z
The fate of the muslims was already predicted in Hadith
Thauban reported that the messenger of Allah said: "It is near that the nations will call one another against you just as the eaters call one another to their dishes." Somebody asked: "Is this because we will be few in numbers that day?" He said: "Nay, but that day you shall be numerous, but you will be like the foam of the sea, and Allah will take the fear of you away from your enemies and will place weakness into your hearts." Somebody asked: "What is this weakness?" He said: "The love of the world and the dislike of death." (Abu Daud)
Thauban reported that the messenger of Allah said: "It is near that the nations will call one another against you just as the eaters call one another to their dishes." Somebody asked: "Is this because we will be few in numbers that day?" He said: "Nay, but that day you shall be numerous, but you will be like the foam of the sea, and Allah will take the fear of you away from your enemies and will place weakness into your hearts." Somebody asked: "What is this weakness?" He said: "The love of the world and the dislike of death." (Abu Daud)
I suppose many would drily comment that these were the ramblings of an intelligent man who was aware that his invented revelations wouldn't last and be believed forever.
Original post by ssdizzy12
Some parts of the big bang theory I believe and it's even in the Quran but others I don't believe and there is not evidence for every single part of the theory. Plus I don't believe in the whole ancestor ape bull crap
The Big Bang theory is most certainly not in the Qur'an, and evolution has more evidence in its favour than the theory of gravity so it's really quite irrelevant whether you accept it or not, that won't stop it from being true.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Nonsense, you have not explained yourself at all. Typical of many religionists unable to consolidate glaring holes in religious dogma, you have done nothing but provide hollow and contradictory justifications which don't fool anyone who doesn't have a vested interest in maintaining the veracity of an ancient ideology.
I suppose many would drily comment that these were the ramblings of an intelligent man who was aware that his invented revelations wouldn't last and be believed forever.
The Big Bang theory is most certainly not in the Qur'an, and evolution has more evidence in its favour than the theory of gravity so it's really quite irrelevant whether you accept it or not, that won't stop it from being true.
I suppose many would drily comment that these were the ramblings of an intelligent man who was aware that his invented revelations wouldn't last and be believed forever.
The Big Bang theory is most certainly not in the Qur'an, and evolution has more evidence in its favour than the theory of gravity so it's really quite irrelevant whether you accept it or not, that won't stop it from being true.
Yes it is!!!! Not every single aspect of it is in the Quran but the islamic view on the Big Bang is mentioned in the 30th verse of the sura Al-Anbiya.And I never said that is was true or not I stated my opinion just as you did and said I don't believe that our ancestors were apes or whatever the stupid theory is
Original post by ssdizzy12
Yes it is!!!! Not every single aspect of it is in the Quran but the islamic view on the Big Bang is mentioned in the 30th verse of the sura Al-Anbiya.And I never said that is was true or not I stated my opinion just as you did and said I don't believe that our ancestors were apes or whatever the stupid theory is
No it isn't, the Quran's so-called scientific miracles have been presented here before and all of them have been debunked.
On this specific issue, the Qur'an makes a vague claim about the earth and heavens being joined together before being separated. First off, this is unoriginal. Previous civilisations already included accounts of the earth/heavens coming into existence by explosions.
Secondly, the description by the Qur'an is erroneous. The Earth was not "joined to the heavens" before parting, planets formed billions of years after the expansion of the universe and were thus not there from the beginning.
And again, I said that it doesn't matter if you call the theory stupid, it is backed up by irrefutable evidence, something by which Islam isn't.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Nonsense, you have not explained yourself at all. Typical of many religionists unable to consolidate glaring holes in religious dogma, you have done nothing but provide hollow and contradictory justifications which don't fool anyone who doesn't have a vested interest in maintaining the veracity of an ancient ideology.
I haven't seen a contradiction, but you have, so tell me again what it is, what i was saying wasn't really hard to understand
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
I suppose many would drily comment that these were the ramblings of an intelligent man who was aware that his invented revelations wouldn't last and be believed forever.
Again in your opinion, this is the problem with your mindset, when clear evidence is presented to you, it is just shrugged off
Original post by emily Z
I haven't seen a contradiction, but you have, so tell me again what it is, what i was saying wasn't really hard to understand
I have highlighted your opposing statements already, whereby you have jumped from opposing positions to try and cover the holes in the dogma, but unfortunately they remain as glaring as ever.
Again in your opinion, this is the problem with your mindset, when clear evidence is presented to you, it is just shrugged off
Not true, you have provided no "clear evidence", but rather a verse from the Hadith, which is no more weighty than saying Hogwarts is real because a passage from the Harry Potter books says so.
In addition, the OP has made her decision and decided that Islam is false while clearly asking people not to come on here with quotes from the Qur'an which will mean nothing to her. Just as someone posting verses from the Bible or the Gita will mean nothing to you.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
No it isn't, the Quran's so-called scientific miracles have been presented here before and all of them have been debunked.
On this specific issue, the Qur'an makes a vague claim about the earth and heavens being joined together before being separated. First off, this is unoriginal. Previous civilisations already included accounts of the earth/heavens coming into existence by explosions.
Secondly, the description by the Qur'an is erroneous. The Earth was not "joined to the heavens" before parting, planets formed billions of years after the expansion of the universe and were thus not there from the beginning.
And again, I said that it doesn't matter if you call the theory stupid, it is backed up by irrefutable evidence, something by which Islam isn't.
On this specific issue, the Qur'an makes a vague claim about the earth and heavens being joined together before being separated. First off, this is unoriginal. Previous civilisations already included accounts of the earth/heavens coming into existence by explosions.
Secondly, the description by the Qur'an is erroneous. The Earth was not "joined to the heavens" before parting, planets formed billions of years after the expansion of the universe and were thus not there from the beginning.
And again, I said that it doesn't matter if you call the theory stupid, it is backed up by irrefutable evidence, something by which Islam isn't.
blah blah evidence this evidence that there is NO evidence, people like you are soooo deeply hypnotised and brain washed by lies and stupid theories from scientist and theorises.You can't sit down for a second and ask yourself if all this evidence crap is really true. How are you so 100% sure that it's true? Because someone said so? Because someone said there's evidence. LWAL go ahead, bum lick your brain washers and believe there bs irrefutable evidence crap and I'll believe mine
Original post by ssdizzy12
blah blah evidence this evidence that there is NO evidence, people like you are soooo deeply hypnotised and brain washed by lies and stupid theories from scientist and theorises.
False yet again, there is plenty of evidence. On the other hand, there is not a shred of evidence to support Islam being true.
Ironic you call others hypnotised when it is people like you who have been brainwashed from birth to believe their religion is true despite there being no empirical data to confirm this.
You can't sit down for a second and ask yourself if all this evidence crap is really true. How are you so 100% sure that it's true? Because someone said so? Because someone said there's evidence. LWAL go ahead, bum lick your brain washers and believe there bs irrefutable evidence crap and I'll believe mine
No, because the evidence says so. Ironically, it's religionists who tend to believe their religion is true simply because people have told them it is, namely their parents and society.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
I have highlighted your opposing statements already, whereby you have jumped from opposing positions to try and cover the holes in the dogma, but unfortunately they remain as glaring as ever.
Not true, you have provided no "clear evidence", but rather a verse from the Qur'an, which is no more weighty than saying Hogwarts is real because a passage from the Harry Potter books says so.
In addition, the OP has made her decision and decided that Islam is false while clearly asking people not to come on here with quotes from the Qur'an which will mean nothing to her. Just as someone posting verses from the Bible or the Gita will mean nothing to you.
Not true, you have provided no "clear evidence", but rather a verse from the Qur'an, which is no more weighty than saying Hogwarts is real because a passage from the Harry Potter books says so.
In addition, the OP has made her decision and decided that Islam is false while clearly asking people not to come on here with quotes from the Qur'an which will mean nothing to her. Just as someone posting verses from the Bible or the Gita will mean nothing to you.
Lol that wasn't a verse from the Qur'an...
They remain glaring only in your mind
Original post by emily Z
Lol that wasn't a verse from the Qur'an...
Qur'an or Hadith, same old and quotes from both are equally as worthless and don't constitute evidence.
They remain glaring only in your mind
They are glaring to anyone with the simplest grasp of logic. The fact you have not been able to logically and consistently consolidate them shows this.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
False yet again, there is plenty of evidence. On the other hand, there is not a shred of evidence to support Islam being true.
Ironic you call others hypnotised when it is people like you who have been brainwashed from birth to believe their religion is true despite there being no empirical data to confirm this.
No, because the evidence says so. Ironically, it's religionists who tend to believe their religion is true simply because people have told them it is, namely their parents and society.
Ironic you call others hypnotised when it is people like you who have been brainwashed from birth to believe their religion is true despite there being no empirical data to confirm this.
No, because the evidence says so. Ironically, it's religionists who tend to believe their religion is true simply because people have told them it is, namely their parents and society.
Ooo because evidence says so..
And no I don't believe everything I have been told about my religion I choose to believe what I want to believe.
You on the other hand, you're hypnotised
Original post by ssdizzy12
Ooo because evidence says so..
And no I don't believe everything I have been told about my religion I choose to believe what I want to believe.
You on the other hand, you're hypnotised
And no I don't believe everything I have been told about my religion I choose to believe what I want to believe.
You on the other hand, you're hypnotised
Again, incorrect. Yes, because the evidence says so, what other reason would there be for accepting a theory as true if not for that?
You are the one that's hypnotised, as well as making false statements about what's in the Qur'an.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
They are glaring to anyone with the simplest grasp of logic. The fact you have not been able to logically and consistently consolidate them shows this.
They are glaring to anyone with the simplest grasp of logic. The fact you have not been able to logically and consistently consolidate them shows this.
So you find it difficult to understand that whilst non-muslims are able to work towards this life, they won't have any share in the hereafter?
Original post by emily Z
So you find it difficult to understand that whilst non-muslims are able to work towards this life, but won't have any share in the hereafter?
I don't find that difficult to understand. It's a claim made, but one with no evidence in its favour whatsoever, nor is there the slightest shred of evidence proving there's some sort of retributive afterlife where you're rewarded or punished for your actions on Earth. That notion is at best primitive, and at worst, vindictive and psychotic.
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