Why are poor white males underachieving at school?

Original post by ivy.98

The way modern identity politics work means that someone will always be at the bottom of the priority pile. Unfortunately for white boys they are the only 'safe' group to put there.
If any organisation were to prioritise boys over girls they would be immediately attacked by feminist groups.
If any organisation were to prioritise whites over other races they would be immediately attacked by anti-racist groups

What do you suggest we do to help white boys achieve better in school then?

Reply 22

username402722

There is an article today on the BBC News website about coastal towns and the level of underachievement. Most of them if not all have a lower ethnic minority population than average. Is there a connection here? Coastal towns having lower achievement, who happen to have more white men?

Reply 23

They can continue to underachieve but still get the high paid jobs. As long as this continues, the is no reason for white males to achieve in school, while women and BME's continue to outperform them but fail to secure those high paying roles.

Reply 24

hellodave5

Original post by queen-bee

Because parents aren't strict enough. Ethnic minority kids know the deal when it comes to education and most of their parents are strict if they fail something or are slacking at school,I certainly knew the deal

Quite a lot of facets to this!
Why aren't the parents strict enough from low SES backgrounds? Then there is the fact that those who are 'strict' with their children actually often have lower outcomes than those who are 'democratic' and flexible with them. Then there is the thing of ethnic minorities having much lower outcomes, due to lower SES (generally). So I'm not sure this would be what determines success in school. My parents for example (my dad particularly) was and is very strict, and that actually resulted in low academic achievement during early adolescence.

Reply 25

PrincePaul353535

1

Original post by Bill_Gates

Why are poor white males underachieving at school?

My view:
- Benefit dependency - why try?
- Chav culture - drugs etc
- Parents world view too narrow minded (not acknowledging global opportunities)
- Short school days - (Parents abuse child tax credits for their own good refer to number 2)
- Poor attitude

Your views?

Poor white males ?

Ok. You get me a poor white male that would swap places with me ? You could not get one.

Hell - Even the beggar on the street wouldn't because if you said

You "OK. Bro. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll give you a job. You'd like that. Right ?"

Beggar "Yeah sure"

You "Yeah - 40 grand a year job. We will clean you up. I've got the keys to a nice apartment here. It's got all the mod cons. Everything It's lovely"

Beggar "Sounds great"

You "Great and I can see you need some help. So I'm gonna give you 3 grand to get you on your feet and a nice car too"

Beggar "This is amazing"

You "But there's is a catch"

Beggar "What's that ?"

You "Your gonna have to be black for the rest of your life but everything else remains in place. The car. The flat. The job. The money."

Beggar "Erm...na....I think I'll just leave that"

Reply 26

Original post by queen-bee

Because parents aren't strict enough. Ethnic minority kids know the deal when it comes to education and most of their parents are strict if they fail something or are slacking at school,I certainly knew the deal

But not all ethnic minorities do well, some do very bad actually

Reply 27

queen-bee

Original post by hellodave5

Quite a lot of facets to this!
Why aren't the parents strict enough from low SES backgrounds? Then there is the fact that those who are 'strict' with their children actually often have lower outcomes than those who are 'democratic' and flexible with them. Then there is the thing of ethnic minorities having much lower outcomes, due to lower SES (generally). So I'm not sure this would be what determines success in school. My parents for example (my dad particularly) was and is very strict, and that actually resulted in low academic achievement during early adolescence.

Maybe the parents went through the same cycle themselves and don't care enough. Sometimes their kids are out wondering the streets and doing all sorts by the time they reach 14. Yeah sometimes that's the case. Like I said in the previous thread,education isn't for everyone.

Reply 28

Bupdeeboowah

3

Original post by Saoirse:3

What do you suggest we do to help white boys achieve better in school then?

No, let them continue to rot so that our PC overlords will be appeased.

Reply 29

queen-bee

Original post by College_Dropout

But not all ethnic minorities do well, some do very bad actually

I know but education is important in most of their cultures and parents have high expectations,failure isn't an option sometimes

Reply 30

math42

20

Original post by xGCSE_Studentx

That's what i said in the previous post and got completely bombarded with messages from a certain user insisting i'm racist for stating my opinion :colonhash:

How ****ed up

Well if you answered "why are women underachieving in STEM?" (I don't know any figures with regards to this, just an example) with "they aren't trying hard enough" or "girls just don't like STEM" it would be seen as unfair stereotyping. Stereotypes exist for a reason and are quite often indicative of what traits someone is likely to have, but people fail to distinguish between consideration of general trends and a steadfast belief that every member of a certain group must be a certain way. There's nothing wrong with saying that in general poor white males are likely to have a worse work ethic but if you don't quality the generality of this then someone will tend to jump down your throat for it.

I think the general culture of apathy, the lack of any real support, the lack of resources at home, upbringing and likely myriad other things contribute to this. My dad went to school in quite a poor area and recalls how there was a culture of almost taking pride in academic failure, and I think that probably exists in quite a few regions today. Though my family has been through pretty poor patches (I think I may have just missed ever qualifying for free school meals; if I did then we never took the offer..) we lived in quite a rural, mostly middle-class area and I, somewhat of a poor white male, have always been motivated to do well academically. So I think the culture of where you live has a lot to do with it.

Reply 31

Bill_Gates

OP

Original post by PrincePaul353535

Poor white males ?

Ok. You get me a poor white male that would swap places with me ? You could not get one.

Hell - Even the beggar on the street wouldn't because if you said

You "OK. Bro. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll give you a job. You'd like that. Right ?"

Beggar "Yeah sure"

You "Yeah - 40 grand a year job. We will clean you up. I've got the keys to a nice apartment here. It's got all the mod cons. Everything It's lovely"

Beggar "Sounds great"

You "Great and I can see you need some help. So I'm gonna give you 3 grand to get you on your feet and a nice car too"

Beggar "This is amazing"

You "But there's is a catch"

Beggar "What's that ?"

You "Your gonna have to be black for the rest of your life but everything else remains in place. The car. The flat. The job. The money."

Beggar "Erm...na....I think I'll just leave that"

Bloody nora, why are you undervaluing black males so much?

Reply 32

scrotgrot

16

Being part of a majority group can breed complacency or make one unable to see the wood for the trees. How many people do you know who were popular at school and had it easy so breezed through it, got bad grades and now have a dead-end job? Many of the nerdy types excluded during school who threw themselves into their work are today doing well.

Similarly if you are the only black kid in a school let's say, you are going to be left out and thus acutely aware that you have to try if you want life to be good. Couple this with the constant rhetoric about equality and the promotion of role models for disadvantaged groups within schools and you have a potent combination.

Then there is the fact that non white parents are often very severe with high expectations: aside from cultural norms we must remember these are people who had the stones to come over here and struggle, it's a self-selecting sample.

What I can't think of is any affirmative action at this level for disadvantaged groups, as opposed to the hiring practices of large corporations which long ago clove to the identity politics rubbish in a bid to seem like they cared about society.

I am the keenest critic of how the education system is positively biased in favour of girls and does too much to promote identity politics in general. Nevertheless there are sound reasons which help explain the low attainment of young white boys and which are endogenous to that group.

Reply 33

hellodave5

Original post by queen-bee

Maybe the parents went through the same cycle themselves and don't care enough. Sometimes their kids are out wondering the streets and doing all sorts by the time they reach 14. Yeah sometimes that's the case. Like I said in the previous thread,education isn't for everyone.

You're right, it is a cycle.
Children tend to follow in line with parents - due to their support directly, knowledge to bring up a child 'correctly'/auspiciously, and their expectations for academic success.

But the problem is why these variables are allowed to determine childhood success to such a great extent. Education should be made a bigger focus in this country, really being the most important thing to a society. Schools don't instill a love of learning, but rather just make it mundane and boring - and if your parents aren't there to say why not, then you wont be arsed.

I find your last comment rather offensive that education isn't for everyone.
I think it most certainly is for everyone. Why would it not be? I would have been in that group as a child (seemingly a lost cause), but now I'm academic, despite my family lacking such a background.

Reply 34

scrotgrot

16

Original post by PrincePaul353535

Poor white males ?

Ok. You get me a poor white male that would swap places with me ? You could not get one.

Hell - Even the beggar on the street wouldn't because if you said

You "OK. Bro. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll give you a job. You'd like that. Right ?"

Beggar "Yeah sure"

You "Yeah - 40 grand a year job. We will clean you up. I've got the keys to a nice apartment here. It's got all the mod cons. Everything It's lovely"

Beggar "Sounds great"

You "Great and I can see you need some help. So I'm gonna give you 3 grand to get you on your feet and a nice car too"

Beggar "This is amazing"

You "But there's is a catch"

Beggar "What's that ?"

You "Your gonna have to be black for the rest of your life but everything else remains in place. The car. The flat. The job. The money."

Beggar "Erm...na....I think I'll just leave that"

As a white male with A's at A-level and a numerate MSc from a red brick university I would take that. Stop with the chip on your shoulder.

Reply 35

queen-bee

Original post by hellodave5

You're right, it is a cycle.
Children tend to follow in line with parents - due to their support directly, knowledge to bring up a child 'correctly'/auspiciously, and their expectations for academic success.

But the problem is why these variables are allowed to determine childhood success to such a great extent. Education should be made a bigger focus in this country, really being the most important thing to a society. Schools don't instill a love of learning, but rather just make it mundane and boring - and if your parents aren't there to say why not, then you wont be arsed.

I find your last comment rather offensive that education isn't for everyone.
I think it most certainly is for everyone. Why would it not be? I would have been in that group as a child (seemingly a lost cause), but now I'm academic, despite my family lacking such a background.

I don't mean it in that way. I mean some kids just aren't interested. They feel like they're getting nothing out of education and would rather run the streets

Reply 36

PrincePaul353535

1

Original post by Bill_Gates

Bloody nora, why are you undervaluing black males so much?

I'm not under-valuing black males.

I'm explaining racism. if I told you that you are stupid, that's not going bother you that much, but if i could convince everyone you come into contact with, that you are stupid, whether you are stupid or not, the fact that I have convinced everyone, is going to have an effect on your life.

You are confusing my assessment with you assuming that I think "better" or "Worse". No. I'm assessing the system of racism and in regards to black males. Black men and women are under valued. Don't get twisted. That should not be the case. But that is case.

Reply 37

Original post by queen-bee

I know but education is important in most of their cultures and parents have high expectations,failure isn't an option sometimes

That may be the case for a portion of ethnic minorities. But only Chinese and Indian students outperform their peers while Black, Bangladeshi and Pakistani students tend to underachieve. Black, Bangladeshi and Pakistani students would far out number Chinese and Indian students so it would be more likely you will underachieve then overachieve being a ethnic minority.

Reply 38