Why are poor white males underachieving at school?

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As a white male with A's at A-level and a numerate MSc from a red brick university I would take that. Stop with the chip on your shoulder.

Racism goes far beyond the wallet.

No poor white male would swap places with a black person

Now generate a list of reasons why not. Even the ugly ones you don’t want to admit.

Even white person who is poor can remove all identifying markers of poverty from themselves (neighborhood, car, dental health, wardrobe, grammar) and the unfair treatment stops ENTIRELY.

Without those factors it is unlikely a white person will ever be harrassed without cause. But the same is not true as a black person moves up the social ladder.

Arguing about how hard poor whites have it, is the same logic as pointing out Steve Wonder to a blind person and saying "Look there are no problems being blind" or me pointing to Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerburg to a poor single mother white women on benefits and saying "Look !! Any white person can make it !!"

The proper test of poor whites racial privilege would be to compare poor whites in the UK with poor blacks and to then ask, do whites have an advantage ?

That whites are the ones you instantly think of when you think of poverty, and the ones for whom you typically then express such great sympathy, says something in itself

Also you tend to find whites who have nothing are often the most extreme racist. Look at any Prison documentary. Full of whites doing life screaming "White Power !!"

Often racism matters more to the poor than the rich. When one is poor and white, skin is all one has left, and it takes on larger-than-life meaning.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 41

interact

What the **** are you on about? What's the point you're trying to make?

Reply 42

interact

Original post by PrincePaul353535

Poor white males ?

Ok. You get me a poor white male that would swap places with me ? You could not get one.

Hell - Even the beggar on the street wouldn't because if you said

You "OK. Bro. I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll give you a job. You'd like that. Right ?"

Beggar "Yeah sure"

You "Yeah - 40 grand a year job. We will clean you up. I've got the keys to a nice apartment here. It's got all the mod cons. Everything It's lovely"

Beggar "Sounds great"

You "Great and I can see you need some help. So I'm gonna give you 3 grand to get you on your feet and a nice car too"

Beggar "This is amazing"

You "But there's is a catch"

Beggar "What's that ?"

You "Your gonna have to be black for the rest of your life but everything else remains in place. The car. The flat. The job. The money."

Beggar "Erm...na....I think I'll just leave that"

I was talking to you, explain this conversation

Reply 43

PrincePaul353535

Original post by interact

I was talking to you, explain this conversation

It's self explanatory.

This myth that whites are getting screwed. Yet I have yet to find one white person who would switch to being black. Even though they claim, black people are getting all these goodies and treats and doors opened for them.

"We are loosing the country. !!" that's what I hear. Really ? We'll we are not winning I can tell you that. Have you driven around Toxteth or Moss Side lately ?

The problem with "Poor white" thing I hear all the time is this often results in an oppression Olympics which makes any conversation about racism impossible.

Reply 44

interact

Original post by PrincePaul353535

Ahhh right right, I was proper lost before, was thinking, what is this guy on about?

I'll test your theory tommorow and ask my white mates at work, whether they'd have a problem being black & rich

Reply 45

scrotgrot

Original post by PrincePaul353535

How would a working clas white person do this without money

Without those factors it is unlikely a white person will ever be harrassed without cause. But the same is not true as a black person moves up the social ladder.

Arguing about how hard poor whites have it, is the same logic as pointing out Steve Wonder to a blind person and saying "Look there are no problems being blind" or me pointing to Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerburg to a poor single mother white women on benefits and saying "Look !! Any white person can make it !!"

Imo that's basically what you're doing: I understand that racism doesn’t necessarily reduce as you get richer but the thing is there are other ways to have it hard other than racism.

The proper test of poor whites racial privilege would be to compare poor whites in the UK with poor blacks and to then ask, do whites have an advantage ?

Ok well you come up with some figures for this then.

That whites are the ones you instantly think of when you think of poverty, and the ones for whom you typically then express such great sympathy, says something in itself

It is normal to think of members of one's own race particularly when they are in the majority. Nevertheless I do not bring skin colour into my opinions about poverty at all - unlike, seemingly, you do.

Also you tend to find whites who have nothing are often the most extreme racist. Look at any Prison documentary. Full of whites doing life screaming "White Power !!"

Sure but poor whites also hate things like trade unions. You can't go by that.

Often racism matters more to the poor than the rich. When one is poor and white, skin is all one has left, and it takes on larger-than-life meaning.

Yes this is probably the reason. That and the perception of a supportive community. I'd wager that there is some jealousy for what I at least see as greater solidarity in minority ethnic communities

Reply 46

Juichiro

Original post by Ripper Phoenix

whats up with these poor white male threads im seeing all over TSR lately! :s-smilie:

A well-known charity published the results about 1 or 2 ago. When comparing ethnicity, gender and economic background, white poor males are the lowest achievers.

Reply 47

Juichiro

Original post by queen-bee

Because parents aren't strict enough. Ethnic minority kids know the deal when it comes to education and most of their parents are strict if they fail something or are slacking at school,I certainly knew the deal

Do you have any non-anedoctal evidence to support your claim?

Reply 48

queen-bee

Original post by Juichiro

Do you have any non-anedoctal evidence to support your claim?

Some things require common sense or observation. What claim are you talking about?

Reply 49

yulebook

Original post by Juichiro

Do you have any non-anedoctal evidence to support your claim?

I'd add that Pakistani and Bangladeshi come from strict, conservative, families but still remain lower class.

There's more to it than just being strict. I think a lot of ethnic minority students are worse off for having been brought up in a strict environment. It's not as if being strict or conservative is a middle class trait (conservative culturally, not politically).

Reply 50

MamzZass

They dont have any appreciation of the true value of education and live in ignorance. Also their environment, role models and friends.

Reply 51

SirMilkSheikh

Original post by PrincePaul353535

So what? A person who has grown up in their own skin may not want to change into someone else no matter what you offer them. I'm a brown guy, and I wouldn't want to be white or black no matter what you offered me, because i'm more than comfortable the way I was born, and I like the way I am.

People get mad over petty racism and I can't help but laugh. I haven't got time for that nonsense.

Reply 52

The_Mighty_Bush

Growing up in bad cultural environments.
Bad family situations such as single mother families.
Education system is more in tune with female attributes rather than male attributes.
Genetics. Wealth correlates with IQ and because IQ is 60-80% hereditary this means that the children of poor people tend to be less intelligent than those of wealthier people.
Bad education system with no discipline or selection by ability.
Poor diet that means that children are having food and drink that lowers their attention span.

Reply 53

Juichiro

Original post by queen-bee

Some things require common sense or observation. What claim are you talking about?

Common sense is cultural and observation has been shown to be made up to an extent by your current beliefs. In short: both are relative.
I am talking about these claims:

Claim 1 - "parents aren't strict enough."
Claim 2 - "Ethnic minority kids know the deal when it comes to education"
Claim 3 - "most of their parents are strict if they fail something or are slacking at school"

If you wish to make factual claims, you should provide evidence to support them. Otherwise, it is understood that it is just a baseless opinion.

Reply 54

Saoirse:3

Original post by Juichiro

Which is really what you should expect, you're asking a bunch of students on the internet not the Office for National Statistics.

Reply 55

Juichiro

Original post by Saoirse:3

Which is really what you should expect, you're asking a bunch of students on the internet not the Office for National Statistics.

The thread topic refers to statistical data released by a well-known charity. OP is making similar claims. It is not a surprise that I ask for evidence backing what she says. Otherwise, it is her opinion.

Reply 56

Wattsy

Coming from a hugely diverse comprehensive I think there are a range of factors at work but possibly the most important is that they aren't really around ambition and success.

A fairly typical scenario: Mum works a low paid job with no real passion for it. She comes home too tired to really engage with the kids at the end of the day. Dad is either absent or does the same. They live around people in similar circumstances. This leads to socialised procrastination and lack of ambition. The cycle then repeats itself, it's been going on for centuries.

This doesn't really address the gender divide but it's well evidenced that schooling suits girls better than boys which could explain the lower achievement. Boys with lack of ambition see that school isn't really working for them and disengage with the system which of course then extenuates the problem.

Where the cycle breaks you tend to see either great innate talents leading to developed work ethic in pursuit of a goal or great parenting where achieving and overachieving are actively encouraged.

Reply 57

Betelgeuse-

Original post by xGCSE_Studentx

That's what i said in the previous post and got completely bombarded with messages from a certain user insisting i'm racist for stating my opinion :colonhash:

How ****ed up

Its because if you said all blacks are lazy and criminal you would be hounded for being racist.

Reply 58

Betelgeuse-

Original post by Bill_Gates

Why are poor white males underachieving at school?

My view:
- Benefit dependency - why try?
- Chav culture - drugs etc
- Parents world view too narrow minded (not acknowledging global opportunities)
- Short school days - (Parents abuse child tax credits for their own good refer to number 2)
- Poor attitude

Your views?

Because all white Brits are fat entitled benefit scroungers. We need some sturdy Chinese child labor in this country working for 1 and a half meals a day to show us how its done

Reply 59

Betelgeuse-

Original post by barnetlad

There is an article today on the BBC News website about coastal towns and the level of underachievement. Most of them if not all have a lower ethnic minority population than average. Is there a connection here? Coastal towns having lower achievement, who happen to have more white men?

Coastal towns = impoverished ghost towns = cheap council housing + Menial jobs = High amount of unemployed = Unemployed most likely to be less educated / intelligent / poor parents = Children of these people less likely to be academically gifted