Leaving Islam/ telling my family I'm athiest?

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Reply 260

Blackstarr

Original post by eoe

Your logic makes me puke

If you say so.

Reply 261

Proxenus

Yo what's man sayin

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 262

MamzZass

Original post by Blackstarr

Regardless of that I still see homosexuality as a choice.

Ignorance is a bliss isnt it?

Reply 263

QE2

Original post by emily Z

Yes we will all be judged on the last day BUT
the non-muslims work for this life and so are rewarded with this life, but the muslims work for the next life and are rewarded with that.
So when it comes to the Day of Judgement, the non-muslims(some exceptions) will be the losers, since their dues were paid in this life, but they gained nothing for the hereafter.

Which raises the question, which of these two people do you think is more deserving of paradise?

A. The perfect altruist and philanthropist who spent his life working as a volunteer doctor for relief charities and gives all his money to the poor. A pacifist, he never says a bad word about anyone and respects everyone's position, even if he does not agree with it. He does not believe in god and rejects his rules.

or

B. A man who condones slavery, domestic violence and gender/religious/sexual discrimination. He takes part in aggressive military actions and authorises the execution and torturing to death of prisoners and opponents. He believes in god and follows all his rules.

Which do you think?
A or B?

Reply 264

Rat_Bag

Original post by Vegito

Hmmm lets see... who is the sensitive one here again? :redface:

I'm not the one pointing fingers on one's faith and beliefs. I guess you have even less brains then your own name "Rat_Bag".

Your opening post pointed fingers at the OP in a very hostile way.

Original post by Vegito

OP is asking for advice and I gave her one. I guess you just like to argue and troll people with out even reading someone's post before you state your none sense.

Your advice was not advice, it was lecturing and basically told the OP to F-off.

Original post by Vegito

Wow... I gotta give it you for this one. If you think that being on an online forum (that is filled with Islam haters like you) shows you that people are abandoning Islam then you should wake up now from your slumber and see the real outside world.

I know Muslims are abandoning Islam all over the place, all over the world. And that's not an observation from the internet.

Original post by Vegito

OP leaving Islam doesn't changes anything considering more are becoming Muslims as well. :tongue:

Nobody knows the numbers. What we do know is the type of people converting and leaving. See here for some of those converts. And whilst Islam is hoovering up the trash of society (rapists, criminals, paedophiles and those with personality defects), the diamonds are abandoning the ummah. It's a great exchange.

Reply 265

Rat_Bag

Original post by Muhammad Shehzar

And you weren't present 1400 years ago, so by your reasoning, you cannot say it is written by God.

U were also not present 1400 years ago, so ho can u say that is is wrong...

I am not the one who says you need to directly experience or observe something in the past to determine whether it is true or not. That's you.

You can determine the facts behind past events on a whole range of historical evidence, from artefacts, documents, etc etc.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 266

Rat_Bag

Original post by Muhammad Shehzar

I meant to say a book in Arabic.

Oh right, so this "miracle" is only available for testing by Arabs/Arabic speakers. A bit of a failure of a miracle, and pretty racist this for you Allah to do

Original post by Muhammad Shehzar

Allah chose his last book to be arabic bcz it is one of the most difficult language..

Firstly, East Asian languages are far harder than Arabic; am referring to Japanese, Vietnamese and other Indochinese languages.

Secondly, what's the logic in your Allah revealing a guidebook for mankind in a difficult language, that will both make it hard for non-Arabs to read and understand, as well as cause all sorts of confusion years down the line with different groups of Muslims claiming their understanding and interpretation is correct when reading this book written in a difficult language.

Original post by Muhammad Shehzar

If u just know something about it.. Its grammar is the most difficult one, so Allah chose it for the people so that they cannot say it is wrong..

If the grammar was easier, this would reduce the changes of people saying is wrong. Your logic is bizarre.

Original post by Muhammad Shehzar

Like u cant believe that Quraan is correct.. how can we believe u that u have read a book better than Quraan.. We were also not present at the time when u read the books that u say were better than Quraan.. as u cant believe Quraan cz u were not present 1400 years ago..

So you can't believe the Qur'an either, since you were no present 1400 years ago. Just to reiterate, it's you who claims you need to directly observe something to know it's true; I don't believe that. You're making the first steps to leaving Islam. Don't stop now ; )

Reply 267

QE2

Original post by ssdizzy12

How are you so 100% sure that it's true? Because someone said so?

How are you so 100% sure that it's not true? Because someone said so?

Because someone said there's evidence.

No. Because there is evidence. Actual, testable, repeatable evidence. Evidence that you can check for yourself and attempt to disprove (although you do need to have at least a basic understanding of the subject involved). Many people have, and failed. Sometimes they discover new information, or fine tune part of the theory. That is how science works!

On the other hand, your "evidence" (or rather, "assertion") is mostly not repeateble or testable, and where it is, it is shown to be flawed.

LWAL go ahead, bum lick your brain washers and believe there bs irrefutable evidence crap and I'll believe mine

And that, L&G, is how religion works! Thanks for explaining it so concisely.

Reply 268

Rat_Bag

Original post by Blackstarr

Regardless of that I still see homosexuality as a choice.

If you believe it is a choice, do you therefore concede at some point in the future, in the right conditions, you might end up choosing to be gay?

Reply 269

Rat_Bag

Original post by MamzZass

Im...idk a liberal muslim maybe? Agnostic? Anyway I find myself questioning a lot of Qur'ans teachings these days especially after studying RMPS for 5 years and i still am. I do consider myself a muslim in identity, however, that doesn't mean that i blindly follow everything in the faith. tbh a lot of the sayings and teachings are quite nonsensical. But despite all of Islam's flaws, be they plentiful indeed, i myself chose to accept the good parts of the religion whilst disregarding all of the outdated mumbo-jumbo it offers.

Are you sure this is how Islam works?

I mean, Islam is based on the Qur'an, with the key assumption being that the Qur'an is authored by God. If you believe that some of the Qur'an is "nonsensical" and "outdated mumbo-jumbo", do you therefore think God was wrong or at least stupid in his writings?

I don't think this degree of overt picking and choosing is really endorsed in Islam.

Reply 270

QE2

Original post by ssdizzy12

And no I don't believe everything I have been told about my religion .

Which parts of the Quran or sunnah do you not believe?

I choose to believe what I want to believe

I'm not sure that's what Allah had in mind when he revealed the Quran to Muhammad.

Essentially, what you are saying here is that there are areas where you value your own personal morality and sense of reason above Allah's divine morality and revelations.
Therefore you consider yourself to be superior to Allah in some respects.

This is clear shirk and will send you straight to the nastiest part of hell.

Reply 271

QE2

Original post by emily Z

In essence this life is a test, and Allah tells us in the Qur'an that he will test us with wealth, hunger etc.Not everyone has the same test, one person may be tested by having a lot of wealth another person may be tested with a lack of wealth.

In which case, the test is utterly meaningless.

If a class are sitting an exam but they are all given different papers, on different subjects, how is one to make any comparison? The boy who failed miserably on the paper he was given would have passed all the others with flying colours because he studied every subject but was never given the book covering the test he was given, yet the girl who passed the one she was lucky enough to be given would have failed miserably on all the others because she was lazy and only opened one of her books.

Which of them is more deserving of passing the exam and getting the reward?

Reply 272

MamzZass

Original post by Rat_Bag

Are you sure this is how Islam works?

I mean, Islam is based on the Qur'an, with the key assumption being that the Qur'an is authored by God. If you believe that some of the Qur'an is "nonsensical" and "outdated mumbo-jumbo", do you therefore think God was wrong or at least stupid in his writings?

I don't think this degree of overt picking and choosing is really endorsed in Islam.

As far as know Islam definitely does not work in this way and i do understand that overt picking and choosing is not endorsed in Islam. Considering that I guess you could say im closer to being an atheist than a muslim in all honesty.

If being a muslim means that you believe God to be this perfect being then i am definitely not a muslim. I believe that if God does exist then he is an egotistical maniac and that if he did create this universe then it is more likely to be "the first rude essay of some infant deity disappointed of his poor performance" simply due to the fact of all the imperfections that exist in this world created by a perfect creator.

Reply 273

farhiyaserar

Original post by tamara98

I understand that you're trying to help her out, but please she has made her decision. She can always go back, right now it's not what she's looking for.

the thing we as muslims just cant stand by and watch one of our sisters go down the wrong path. same way you wouldnt like it if one your family members are doing something wrong or harmful.
it doesnt matter if she takes the advice or if she doesnt, we still need to let her know that what she is doing isnt whats good for in the long run. this applies to all muslims sinning not just the ones leaving Islam. we're sister/brotherhood who are supposed guide/ not force!! and it is a sin for us to just watch someone sin.

Reply 274

QE2

Original post by emily Z

Are all people the same? People have different capabilities, mental capacities, different physical attributes. How is it fair if we everyone gets the same test? Surely then some people will be at an advantage over others?
Each test is suited exactly, perfectly to each individuals capabilities ..

OK. Explain how this test works.

Person A. Born into a wealthy and powerful Muslim family in Dubai. They live a comfortable and priveleged life and are taught a moderate and inclusive version of Islam from an early age. They give millions to charity, study to be a doctor and spend their life helping the needy from a position of comfort. They marry and have children. Their parents live to a good age and die peacefully in their sleep and their wife and children are healthy, well behaved and intelligent. They follow the 5 pillars and 6 articles without fail. They die having never wavered in their faith.

Person B. Born into an impoverished Muslim family in Somalia, they are taught little of Islam other than the basics. He cannot read so cannot find out more, but he carries out everything that he has been taught. His parents die from famine, despite him praying to Allah for help. His wife is raped and murdered in front of him by Islamists, despite him praying to Allah for help. Two of his children die painfully from disease, despite all his prayers for help. Eventually, he decides that Allah has deserted him, so he loses his faith and converts to Christianity after missionaries visit his village and save his remaining child with antibiotics, and explain that their god would never have allowed all that to happen to him.

Who passes the test and who fails? A or B?

Reply 275

tamara98

Original post by farhiyaserar

I know, I promise you I know, but it's just causing her even more distress. Besides, I know so many muslims around me who say that they are religious but don't do anything that it's refreshing to see someone admit that they can't follow their beliefs anymore. It's normal to want everyone to follow a path that you think is best, but she isn't insulting her past religion nor insulting muslims, she's peacefully trying to go on with her life and she isn't doing anything wrong.

Reply 276

Rat_Bag

Original post by MamzZass

Doesn't sound like you're a Muslim mate. Definitely more of a deist.

Reply 277

QE2

Original post by emily Z

God is the most merciful,
The evidence is the Qur'an.

"The most merciful" means that it is not possible for anyone to be more merciful.

Is punishing someone with an eternity of unbearable pain the "most merciful" way of dealing with the finite "crime" of being born into a non-Muslim religion?

If anyone can think of a more merciful way of dealing with that situation, then Allah is not "the most merciful" and the Quran is shown to be flawed.

Can you think of a more merciful way of punishing someone for being brought up a Christian (for example) that to torture them for ever?

Reply 278

QE2

Original post by Zamestaneh

Even if there was a true religion which existed (from the perspective of the current irreligious), there would always be something to call 'convenient' or complain about, and even if God decended from the sky, skeptics like you and Qe2 would probably say "this isn't God, it's just a created superior life form that we must research"...

If what you are saying is that I will always favour the most reasonable explanation for something, then you are correct.

If you are claiming that Islam is the most reasonable explanation for the way the universe is, then I (and 75% of the world's population) disagree. Not to mention nearly 100% of the world's foremost physicists, biologists and chemists.

How do you explain the fact that almost every leading scientist in the world rejects Islam? What is it that you know that they don't, and why are you not able to convince them?

Reply 279

QE2

Original post by emily Z

The Qur'an has told us about the mentality of the Jahil

And of them there are some who listen to you; but We have set veils on their hearts, so they understand it not, and deafness in their ears; if they see every one of the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) they will not believe therein; to the point that when they come to you to argue with you, the disbelievers say: "These are nothing but tales of the men of old."

And how true the Qur'an is.

So a new religion, following many others that had many disbelievers, claims that there will be people who will not believe?

Wow! Never thought of it like that before. Obviously must have come from god, and not from man. Men could never have come up with that idea!

but We have set veils on their hearts, so they understand it not

Why would Allah deliberately stop people from believing in him? After all, the Quran says that the sole purpose of mankind is only to worship him.
This needs properly explaining.