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Independent: The Prophet Mohammed had British values

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Original post by demx9
Would you think most Muslims you know hold your views ?


I don't know
Original post by MJlover


So I've said it before, but another Muslim TSRian had told me that I would get banned for it. So I stopped posting about this topic since.


More likely they are embarrassed about what your faith says and don't want you discussing this with non muslims (in which case this is there issue not yours)

But you should note that you did post the punishment but you were not banned.
Original post by MJlover

another Muslim TSRian had told me that I would get banned for it. So I stopped posting about this topic since.


You must now realise that you were being lied to, and must, surely, question that poster's motives?
Reply 83
Avatar for QE2
QE2
20
Original post by MJlover
No I think the rules are wrong here, and I'm pretty sure another user had told me about the fact that talk of apostasy laws can get you banned.
No, but easy mistake to make. You can get banned for criticising members for their support for executing apostates.

I think the ignorance and shallowness of TSRians toward Islam leads them to reporting such posts.
Indeed. I have rarely encountered anything as ignorant or shallow as calling for the death of those who leave your special club.

While you're being so honest about your beliefs, do you also support the right of Muslim husbands to beat their disobedient wives, as a last resort? I guess you must as you said that you support everything that Muhammad said, and this comes direct from the organ grinder.
Original post by MJlover
I do because disagreeing with it would question whether I'm actually in this faith. Who am I to disagree with God's commandments, or you>?


More to the point, doesn't disagreeing with what the religion says make you question whether you want to be a part of it?
Original post by Good bloke
But those private faith schools are registered as charities , and receiving public subsidy. My suggested law would make it difficult for many to exist.


OK, then what vehicle will you use to instill moral values in children? There are others - but, I feel, none with quite the persuasive impact of Christianity, which is responsible for the tallest, grandest building in every village, festivals which punctuate the year, ceremonies which punctuate people's lives, etc.

I would far sooner have our weak infusion of Christianity as a moral authority than the state ideology, which is inherently politicised and, from the USSR to France to the Dissolution of the Monasteries to the Ba'ath Parties, tends to be the thing which fills the vacuum when secularisation happens. It is unfortunately the only thing whose staying power rivals religion.
Original post by QE2
No, but easy mistake to make. You can get banned for criticising members for their support for executing apostates.

Indeed. I have rarely encountered anything as ignorant or shallow as calling for the death of those who leave your special club.

While you're being so honest about your beliefs, do you also support the right of Muslim husbands to beat their disobedient wives, as a last resort? I guess you must as you said that you support everything that Muhammad said, and this comes direct from the organ grinder.


I don't believe you should cause pain or bruises and that 'beating' should be done with a small miswak.
Original post by Good bloke
More to the point, doesn't disagreeing with what the religion says make you question whether you want to be a part of it?


well obviously.
I don't understand your question tbh
no offence
Original post by scrotgrot
OK, then what vehicle will you use to instill moral values in children?


I, an atheist, have brought up two children to be moral and law-abiding citizens I am proud of. They, too, are atheists (from their own choice). I do not see why there would be a problem.
Original post by MJlover
well obviously.
I don't understand your question tbh
no offence


Let me put it better then. Since you disagree with what Islam says is a necessary thing to believe, why do you remain a Moslem?
Reply 90
Avatar for QE2
QE2
20
Original post by MJlover
You'll have to C&P the comment because I am perma-banned from the F&S forum. (See, you can get banned for criticising an ideology that promotes murder, but not for actually promoting murder, apparently)
Original post by Good bloke
Let me put it better then. Since you disagree with what Islam says is a necessary thing to believe, why do you remain a Moslem?


i don't disagree tho.

I agree, I don't understand why people call themselves Muslims yet disagree with the teachings.
Original post by QE2
You'll have to C&P the comment because I am perma-banned from the F&S forum. (See, you can get banned for criticising an ideology that promotes murder, but not for actually promoting murder, apparently)


MJlover
punishment for adultery is stoning, adultery meaning having sexual intercourse with someone else whilst married.

The lashes is for single people who commit fornication.

I could go on, but would I be banned as there are some points I'd like to make that would be accused of as being homophobic?

Witchcraft and sorcery are also punishable by death as is apostasy.


..
Reply 93
Avatar for demx9
demx9
OP
3
Original post by QE2
You'll have to C&P the comment because I am perma-banned from the F&S forum. (See, you can get banned for criticising an ideology that promotes murder, but not for actually promoting murder, apparently)


You actually got banned for criticizing Islam ?
Reply 94
Avatar for Simes
Simes
16
"Mohammed had British values"

•

Did Mohammed eat bacon butties? Did he enjoy pork sausages with his fry-up?

•

Did Mohammed go to the the pub on a Friday after work and get bladdered?

•

Did Mohammed go to Church on Sunday morning?

•

Did Mohammed have a whip-round to pay for some lovely brass bells and stained glass windows of the saints for his churches?

It's not looking good so far.

•

Is there a stoning circle in your local shopping centre where those who have stopped going to church get stoned to death?

•

Does your local council have a "no effeminate men" social housing policy?

•

Does your local registry office accommodate one man / four women marriage ceremonies?


I just cannot see the relevance of any medieval or pre-medieval desert religion in the 21st century.
Original post by Good bloke
I, an atheist, have brought up two children to be moral and law-abiding citizens I am proud of. They, too, are atheists (from their own choice). I do not see why there would be a problem.


So you do not believe schools have a responsibility to try to ensure pupils understand right and wrong? What of less responsible parents?

And did your children develop their moral systems through for example story books or TV shows? Because that is another option I left open to you for how schools could do it; although as I said I consider Christianity to have a bit more shock and awe around it thus it may be more effective.

The morality promoted in schools like mine appears consonant with the general sense of what is fair and righteous in British society today. That is probably to do with the declining Anglican church needing to dance to the tune of the times as much as the entwined history of Christianity and Britishness.

I am an atheist myself and so are my parents for what it's worth.
My very serious response to this

Spoiler

Original post by MJlover
i don't disagree tho.


So, you do agree with all of Islam's uncivilised rules on what should happen to apostates, homosexuals, thieves etc? Do you hope for sharia law in Britain?

Why do you say there is ignorance about Islam? If we understand Islam is like this, and you agree that is what Islam says, how are we ignorant?
Original post by scrotgrot
So you do not believe schools have a responsibility to try to ensure pupils understand right and wrong? What of less responsible parents?


I do, but you don't need religion to do so.
Original post by Good bloke
So, you do agree with all of Islam's uncivilised rules on what should happen to apostates, homosexuals, thieves etc? Do you hope for sharia law in Britain?

Why do you say there is ignorance about Islam? If we understand Islam is like this, and you agree that is what Islam says, how are we ignorant?


I agree and I don't think its uncivilised.

I just think its shallow because you don't know or care about the wisdom behind the legislation and the benefits of it. You just mark it as barbaric.

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