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Reply 360
Original post by MamzZass
Tbh I don't really believe in God anymore and there are a number of reasons why.

Firstly, the fact that God demands all of his creation to 'submit' to his will is preposterous especially so that they are sent to hell of they don't. It makes God out to be quite frankly an egotistical maniac self-obsessed with himself.

Secondly, the problem of evil and suffering. "either God cannot abolish evil or he will not. If he cannot then he is not all powerful; if he will not then he is not all good"(epicurus) to simplify this argument, some key beliefs are that God is omniopotent and omnibenevolent. But the problem of evil and suffering challenges this as how can a God with these characteristics let evil and suffering exist?

Finally, there are more reasons as to why I believe that God doesn't exist but I think the ones above illustrate my view.
So to sum up, no I don't believe that the quran is the word of God simply because God can't exist. However, if he were to exist then God is not worthy of any praise and is in fact very flawed and his 'word' tbh is BS.
All good points. I guess that once one breaks free of the conditioning, some truths really are "self evident".
Congratulations on making that discovery!
Reply 361
Original post by Muhammad Shehzar
I sayed it cannot happen unless Allah wants.. If Allah wants to do something he just orders it & it happens..
How very convenient.
Reply 362
Original post by Muhammad Shehzar
Coming to ur answers one by one..1) Slavery according to Islam means that when u fought a war & the people u arrested r considered to be slaves..& if they want to get free they may get by paying something which the other person demands. he can also pay money once or half-half.. Except this reason u cant make someone as a slave.. but it happens in many countries, people r kidnapped and then smugled & mad as slaves.. Is that right..?... 2)Having sex with ur female slaves(which I explained u above) is because now she is under ur rule, meant to say supervisor of her.. It is a clean relationship & better than Zina.. having sex without doing marrige is zina & in many foreign countries people gave it a name boyfriend-girlfriend to it... its far better than it.. 3) Its written as if ones wife disobeys him tell her not to do it, if she doesnot hear than dont sleep with her, if she still does not obey u then beat her.. & even after beating she doesnot obey u than there is no choice left except for divorce.. No one has the right to beat her, if they have not tried all the above things.. 4)I have also explain zina to u above, and that is the punishment for zina or rape.. 100 lashes to each one who have done it.. 5) Its called Jihad which means to spread the message of Allah without trying to harm them, and not insisting them to accept the Islam... but if they in rply harm u then u have all rights to defend urself..
1. Not according to the Quran and sunnah. For example, after executing all the male Banu Qurayza (who had surrendered BTW), Muhammad enslaved all the women and children and later sold them to another tribe in exchange for weapons and supplies.
However, you are still defending slavery. Nice.

2. A slave cannot give free consent, therefore the sex is rape. You may try to rationalise it, but you are essentially defending rape. Nice.

3. So you are defending wife beating. Nice.

4. So you support the flogging of fornicators (and presumably, the stoning of adulterers). Nice.

5. Again, this is not how the Quran and sunnah describe it. Ibn Kathir explains "wage war against Allah and his messenger" (5:33) to include "opposition, contradiction and disbelief". "Mischief and corruption" (fasad) includes rejecting Allah's message".
Also, 9:5 says "kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush." Hardly actions of self defence.
8:39 says to "fight until all religion is for Allah and disbelief is no more" (although disbelievers will be spared if they submit to Islam), so clearly an element of coercion through force.

Either you are not fully aware of the content of Islamic scripture, or you are being deliberately mendacious in an attempt to paint Islam in a more favourable light.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 363
Original post by Muhammad Shehzar
Yes, no-doubt Imam Ibn-e-Kathir has written one of the most prominent tafseer..
Although you'd be surprised how many Muslims reject his tafsir when it paints Islam in a bad light.

& the Quraan was sent 1400 years ago not at 7th century, it was present in the 7th century & before 7th century..
The 7th century covers the period from 600AD to 700AD. Muhammad had his first "revelation" in 610AD.
So the Quran is most certainly a 7th century work.

Seems you need to brush up on your history as well as Islamic scripture.
Original post by Blackstarr
Yes, I do biology, to be specific its anatomy and physiology.

Edit: I don't recall stating "A single gene determines your sexuality".


Oh god. You may be doing the wrong course.

And you stated, "There is no gay gene" or something to that extent, so yes you did.
Original post by Muhammad Shehzar
Coming to ur answers one by one..1) Slavery according to Islam means that when u fought a war & the people u arrested r considered to be slaves..& if they want to get free they may get by paying something which the other person demands. he can also pay money once or half-half.. Except this reason u cant make someone as a slave.. but it happens in many countries, people r kidnapped and then smugled & mad as slaves.. Is that right..?... 2)Having sex with ur female slaves(which I explained u above) is because now she is under ur rule, meant to say supervisor of her.. It is a clean relationship & better than Zina.. having sex without doing marrige is zina & in many foreign countries people gave it a name boyfriend-girlfriend to it... its far better than it.. 3) Its written as if ones wife disobeys him tell her not to do it, if she doesnot hear than dont sleep with her, if she still does not obey u then beat her.. & even after beating she doesnot obey u than there is no choice left except for divorce.. No one has the right to beat her, if they have not tried all the above things.. 4)I have also explain zina to u above, and that is the punishment for zina or rape.. 100 lashes to each one who have done it.. 5) Its called Jihad which means to spread the message of Allah without trying to harm them, and not insisting them to accept the Islam... but if they in rply harm u then u have all rights to defend urself..


I cant actually believe what I just read, I hope you're not defending the above points.
Reply 366
Original post by farhiyaserar

the main thing about Islam is believing in Allah, there no good that can out weigh the fact that you dont believe in Allah, except if Allah chooses so.

that man will go to heaven because he has a clean a slate. all his past sins are forgiven so they are not taken into consideration...

thats why Allah is ar-rahim: he forgives all sins except shirk-which is not believing in allah. its really simple
So you approve of this state of affairs?

You really think that someone who has spent 50 years killing, abusing, torturing, raping, stealing and exploiting - but died whilst on hajj, is more deserving of paradise than someone who has spent their entire life selflessly in the service of others - but who was not convinced of the existence of the god of Islam?

You really think that this is what a "most merciful and most just" god would actually do?
Original post by QE2
So you approve of this state of affairs?

You really think that someone who has spent 50 years killing, abusing, torturing, raping, stealing and exploiting - but died whilst on hajj, is more deserving of paradise than someone who has spent their entire life selflessly in the service of others - but who was not convinced of the existence of the god of Islam?

You really think that this is what a "most merciful and most just" god would actually do?


I am explaining to you the rules, i dont know what decision Allah will make for this certain individual, they could be forgiven and go to heaven on the day of judgement!

however im not sure if you're forgiven for intentionally making another soul bleed: murder, torture, rape... so dont qoute me on that

going to heaven is actually very simple, youre good deeds and your bad deeds will be put on a scale and whichever one weighs more is where you'll go.

and going to hajj means that all youre sins are forgiven so what you did in the past doesnt matter. therefore the individual who did good his whole life but didnt believe in Allah has more sins compared to the individual who went to hajj and had their sins forgiven

also im not the one to say who is deserving and who isnt because i dont choose who goes to heaven and hell
Original post by farhiyaserar
no one sees as the wrong path now, because they believe they're free from the restriction of the religion but that wont be the case when she dies,
we have to warn our sister about the problems that will come her way! if she dislikes Islam more i hope Allah helps her because thats all that can help her.


It will be the case when she dies because Jahannam doesn't exist, nor does Allah.
Reply 369
Original post by farhiyaserar
I am explaining to you the rules, i dont know what decision Allah will make for this certain individual, they could be forgiven and go to heaven on the day of judgement!
This is the same cop-out that is regularly used by Muslims when confronted by the clearly illogical and unjust system devised by the authors of the Quran.

"I don't make the rules. Allah Knows Best™"

However, you clearly support this system, so you should really be able to understand it.

I will explain it to you.
The Good Man goes to hell and is tortured forever.
The Monster goes to jannah and is in paradise forever.

And you agree with this state of affairs.
If you didn't, you wouldn't be a Muslim because you would consider Allah to be wrong, and no Muslim can hold that position.

In light of your established position on suffering and justice, I assume that you are equally comfortable with the plight of Palestinians, Yazidis, Rohingya, etc.
Allah Knows Best™, remember?
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
It will be the case when she dies because Jahannam doesn't exist, nor does Allah.


'And the eminent among his people who disbelieved and denied the meeting of the Hereafter while We had given them luxury in the worldly life said, "This is not but a man like yourselves. He eats of that from which you eat and drinks of what you drink.

And if you should obey a man like yourselves, indeed, you would then be losers.

How far, how far, is that which you are promised.

Does he promise you that when you have died and become dust and bones that you will be brought forth [once more]?

Life is not but our worldly life - we die and live, but we will not be resurrected.

He is not but a man who has invented a lie about God, and we will not believe him."'
Original post by Zamestaneh
'And the eminent among his people who disbelieved and denied the meeting of the Hereafter while We had given them luxury in the worldly life said, "This is not but a man like yourselves. He eats of that from which you eat and drinks of what you drink.

And if you should obey a man like yourselves, indeed, you would then be losers.

How far, how far, is that which you are promised.

Does he promise you that when you have died and become dust and bones that you will be brought forth [once more]?

Life is not but our worldly life - we die and live, but we will not be resurrected.

He is not but a man who has invented a lie about God, and we will not believe him."'


Circular reasoning and these quotes just reinforce how absurd the notion of Allah actually is.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Circular reasoning and these quotes just reinforce how absurd the notion of Allah actually is.


How does it reinforce absurdity? If anything, there is a verse for almost any situation, showing how the Quran always has and always will be a relevant commentary and guidance for society.
Original post by Zamestaneh
How does it reinforce absurdity? If anything, there is a verse for almost any situation, showing how the Quran always has and always will be a relevant commentary and guidance for society.


Verse for any situation? Hardly. It is in essence just threats against those who don't believe in the religion. It hardly takes a genius to work out that Muhammad would have foreseen that there would be people not fooled by him and thus denouncing them as traitors and losers would be in his best interests.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Verse for any situation? Hardly. It is in essence just threats against those who don't believe in the religion. It hardly takes a genius to work out that Muhammad would have foreseen that there would be people not fooled by him and thus denouncing them as traitors and losers would be in his best interests.


Your basic premise is that Muhammad (saw) lacked sincerity in his mission; he was offered position of power, wealth, etc, yet he refused it, and he was beaten, abused, tormented, attempts made on his life, and this was even before he even left Mecca for Madinah, still only having a small following of oppressed believers who kept to themselves. So in your belief, he was a person who lacked sincerity and just wanted to become a leader and get what he wants, so to get what he wanted he preached about God, charity, righteousness? That's obsurred, and you have little evidence to support that massive assumption.
Original post by Zamestaneh
Your basic premise is that Muhammad (saw) lacked sincerity in his mission; he was offered position of power, wealth, etc, yet he refused it, and he was beaten, abused, tormented, attempts made on his life, and this was even before he even left Mecca for Madinah, still only having a small following of oppressed believers who kept to themselves. So in your belief, he was a person who lacked sincerity and just wanted to become a leader and get what he wants, so to get what he wanted he preached about God, charity, righteousness? That's obsurred, and you have little evidence to support that massive assumption.


My comment doesn't depend on Muhammad being insincere. In my view it would still apply even if he truly believed what he said. He would still proclaim those who disagreed with him as losers and would obviously see the massive advantages to his cause by doing so, even if he still believed that his revelations were genuine.

Speaking of massive assumptions, you have made the biggest of them all by assuming he was sincere based on his own writings, i.e. Quran. Again, it doesn't take a genius to work out that intelligent individuals knew just how powerful the notion that God is on their side could be to forward their cause. And thus lying by claiming to be sincere would be in their best interests. As you take his words as Gospel, you are taking him at face value without being able to objectively prove, one way or the other, that he was sincere.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by QE2
Original post by Zamestaneh
Even if there was a true religion which existed (from the perspective of the current irreligious), there would always be something to call 'convenient' or complain about, and even if God decended from the sky, skeptics like you and Qe2 would probably say "this isn't God, it's just a created superior life form that we must research"...


If what you are saying is that I will always favour the most reasonable explanation for something, then you are correct.

If you are claiming that Islam is the most reasonable explanation for the way the universe is, then I (and 75% of the world's population) disagree. Not to mention nearly 100% of the world's foremost physicists, biologists and chemists.

How do you explain the fact that almost every leading scientist in the world rejects Islam? What is it that you know that they don't, and why are you not able to convince them?


Not just leading scientists but also every leading philosopher, since the user invoked the discipline in the first page:

Original post by Zamestaneh
Philosophically ponder and you will realise that science will never realistically explain where the Universe came from, even from (unsatisfactory) theories, and God is probable to exist; arrogant New Atheists feel that people use God as a miracle answer to the question of the universe, however it is the most logical answer, and based upon this, as much as it displeases many, religion actually makes sense and provides moral, social, psychological and spiritual order in people and society much to its benefit.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
My comment doesn't depend on Muhammad being insincere. In my view it would still apply even if he truly believed what he said. He would still proclaim those who disagreed with him as losers and would obviously see the massive advantages to his cause by doing so, even if he still believed that his revelations were genuine.

Speaking of massive assumptions, you have made the biggest of them all by assuming he was sincere based on his own writings, i.e. Quran. Again, it doesn't take a genius to work out that intelligent individuals knew just how powerful the notion that God is on their side could be to forward their cause. And thus lying by claiming to be sincere would be in their best interests. As you take his words as Gospel, you are taking him at face value without being able to objectively prove, one way or the other, that he was sincere.


If he was sincere, then he would not be proclaiming things of his own will or desires, therefore the only advantages he would see would be after proclaiming what he was inspired to say; if he said anything of his own free will/him deciding what to say, then he would not be sincere in giving revelation - so to clarify my point, imagine if I advised you to be nice to your neighbours. This advice is thought out before hand, and I can be giving it sincerely to you; this is not akin to sincere revelation/inspiration. If I was to then out of a feeling of compulsion and immediate (not preconceived) inspiration to tell you to be nice your neighbours, then that is sincere inspiration, not sincere advice, so sincere advise is thought out before hand with the benefits already in mind, whereas with sincere inspiration the benefit of saying be nice to your neighbours is realised after saying the statement.
Based on this reasoning, it would be illogical to say that he said all of these things for his own person convenience (if we assume he was sincere).

We use the hadith and seerah to prove he was sincere; skeptical nubs will obviously say "but they could have lied about him because it would benefit their own position"; this then means that every Muslim from the first to the last is having their sincerity questioned, so it's no longer a matter of one man being sincere, it's now a conspiracy that was hatched by the first generation of Muslims with Muhammad to control Arabia, so the claims get wilder and lack more substantial evidence to support these conspiracy theories.
Original post by eoe
Non Muslims can also go to Jahnna. Secondly, you can never judge. Allah might forgive her on judgement day.
Considering the amount of hate and ignorance that exists in the muslim community, no wonder so many people are leaving Islam

btw I am muslim


My god you should be given a prize for being able to make so many errors just in these few lines. I can write a book pointing out your mistakes and sorry to say but your utter Ignorance of islam.

It is haram(forbidden) for non muslims to go to jannah as allah says:

"...Indeed he who associates partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Jannah (Paradise) for him, and the Fire (of Hell) will be his abode ."[Al-Maaida 5:72]


“Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur’aan and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikoon will abide in the fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures”[al-Bayyinah 98:6] No this verses is not out of context I have memorised the entire surah and if you want I you can check the rest of the surah it very much in context.There are many more verses but I chose this one to make it short.And about forgiving in the day of judgement. My god I dont even know where to start in almost every chapter allah talks about how the disbelivers will pay in the day of judgement.


Allaah sent Messengers to every nation, that they might worship Him and shun false deities. The last nation is this ummah, and the last Messenger is Muhammad (peace be upon him). Allaah sent him for the whole of mankind, the entire world, and thus abrogated the previous laws and made this religion the best and most perfect and complete. Hence it is obligatory for everyone to enter this religion, for Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

These verses summarise the islamic viewpoint on the fate of disbelivers in hereafter.

These verses are the last few verses from the end of surah kahf.

Say, [O Muhammad], "Shall we [believers] inform you of the greatest losers as to [their] deeds?

[They are] those whose effort is lost in worldly life, while they think that they are doing well in work.

Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord and in [their] meeting Him, so their deeds have become worthless; and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance."

I tried to make it as short as possible.but as I said an entire book can be written just summarising your mistakes.

If non muslims will to heaven then why be a muslim?

Why pray five times a day?. When you go in by drinking beer and fornicating.

Your statements make no sense logically nor do have any islamic basis.
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 379
Original post by Zamestaneh
Your basic premise is that Muhammad (saw) lacked sincerity in his mission; he was offered position of power, wealth, etc, yet he refused it, and he was beaten, abused, tormented, attempts made on his life, and this was even before he even left Mecca for Madinah, still only having a small following of oppressed believers who kept to themselves. So in your belief, he was a person who lacked sincerity and just wanted to become a leader and get what he wants, so to get what he wanted he preached about God, charity, righteousness? That's obsurred, and you have little evidence to support that massive assumption.
So people who develop a new ideology, attempt to spread it and suffer when it comes into conflict with the establishment, must be working on divine instruction.

Are you claiming that no one is prepared to suffer in order to achieve their ultimate goal? Really? Are you completely unaware of history and the world around you?

The point isn't that he lacked sincerity. It is that his ideology was not from divine revelation. Who knows, he may even have genuinely believed that he was acting as god's mouthpiece - others certainly have, the brain is a strange animal.

However, simply saying "there will be people who oppose me, but they will be wrong" does not prove that those people opposing him are wrong, only that he knew that some people would not believe him. He's hardly going to say that they are right, is he?

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