Russian plane crash - evidence pointing to bomb or missile - 224 dead

Lots of Iraqi on Iraqi violence then. It would coalition forces who asked the Iraqi population to start creating medieval sectarian murder.

It says a lot about a country that as soon as you remove a blood thirsty dictator, the first thing the locals do is start killing each other.

That statistic was from involvement of foreign forces. Not sectarian violence.

Bull ****.

BBC had it saying a flash and no heat trail towards the impact, so no ground to air missile. Either on-board explosive or catastrophic (explosive) engine failure. If it was a bomb then that's serious news, I'd have thought Egypt would have reasonably tight airport security though?

Well you'd think britain had good airport security, but newspaper reporters seem to be able to sneak replica bombs into aircraft at UK airports at will. Just cos they've got a lot of 'security theatre' going on where the passengers can see it doesn't mean there isn't a problem elsewhere.

Testing security on an official bases, bit like a supermarket mystery shopper, but be a really interesting career. I do wonder myself sometimes that surely if a terrorist was really committed, they could probably down a plane. I mean some countries with quite basic airports don't seem to do full body scanners just X-ray.

I mean cleaners, baggage handlers etc there's a lot of 'invisible' workers at an airport who get the opportunity to put something that shouldn't be there on board.

every so often a frozen corpse drops out of a planes landing gear when it comes in to land... it's a stowaway attempting to emigrate - but what are those guys even doing getting anywhere near a plane on the ground in the first place? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19562101

Tests have revealed no explosive residue on victims bodies.

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Not to be over-sceptical, but I wonder how much we can trust reports from Russia on this kind of thing. It would be better if it was independent experts. Putin may have reasons to not want to admit (for example) that his policies in Syria have immediately led to 200+ civilian Russians dying. I'm not saying that is what's going on, but given recent history, I'm not sure we can trust explanations from Moscow.

Not to be over-sceptical, but I wonder how much we can trust reports from Russia on this kind of thing. It would be better if it was independent experts. Putin may have reasons to not want to admit (for example) that his policies in Syria have immediately led to 200+ civilian Russians dying. I'm not saying that is what's going on, but given recent history, I'm not sure we can trust explanations from Moscow.

It's funny. In the west it takes months of painstaking analysis and theory to ascertain what took down a plane along with the chian of events leading up to it. Every detail of the plane's construction, design, maintinance life, wreckage and even what the pilot ate the day before is closely scrutinised.

In Russia it takes two days, the first it's mechanical failure and the next it's a bomb.

Colour me unconvinced.

They do seem to be in a hurry.

I think Metrojet's rush to announce that it was an external cause is particularly despicable if they had no conclusive evidence either way, which seems likely. Their motive - diverting the blame from themselves - is obvious, but it points to the cowboy culture being still a key part of Russian business life.

The government's motives in Russia are also fairly predictable, presumably they do not want this to be ISIS revenge (at least, not yet anyway) as Putin, despite any Russia TV messages to the contrary, has the sole aim of keeping Assad in office at all costs and devil take the consequences. Russia will be happy to carpet Syria with the dead and dying to achieve that worthy goal. After all, there are arms sales at stake!

So any messages coming out of Russia should be approached with at least a weary scepticism.

I have some faith given that the French will be involved through the Airbus connection. The Egyptian findings won't be worth the papyrus its printed on, they've been known to fabricate air crash investigations before (EgyptAir Flight 990). So I think you are right to be sceptical but given the number of different nations involved and how easy it is to prove a bomb I think we can have some trust if terrorism is ruled out.

Plus I'm not convinced if ISIS could smuggle a bomb into Sharm they would target the Russians. They aren't being hit that hard by the Russians and Sharm airport would be filled with European targets, I'd of thought a BA plane would have a much bigger impact internationally.

That's counter intuitive though. Russia admitting it was an ISIS bomb gives them greater latitude to go into Syria, not less.

That's counter intuitive though. Russia admitting it was an ISIS bomb gives them greater latitude to go into Syria, not less.

I also don't see many French on here but it didn't stop braindead dullards telling us that the Charlie Hebdoe shootings were a false flag. Also, there's like two Americans on here but plenty of other fools talking about 9/11 being an inside job.