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vegan, vegetarian, omnivore?

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Original post by fairytalecolours
indeed, you're correct :smile:



the transition to veganism will be extremely gradual, and animal agricultural conditions will worsen before they improve, simply because humans aren't yet aware of what's happening in the industry and more and more countries are becoming industrialised and westernised. once awareness increases, we'll see more and more people transitioning to organic/high welfare diets until eventually we won't raise animals for slaughter anymore. yes i am against people hunting animals in england unless they have no other option which as i said is extremely extremely unlikely.


How will we grow enough healthy organic crops without fertiliser to feed the nation?

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Original post by fairytalecolours

the transition to veganism will be extremely gradual, and animal agricultural conditions will worsen before they improve, simply because humans aren't yet aware of what's happening in the industry and more and more countries are becoming industrialised and westernised. once awareness increases, we'll see more and more people transitioning to organic/high welfare diets until eventually we won't raise animals for slaughter anymore. yes i am against people hunting animals in england unless they have no other option which as i said is extremely extremely unlikely.


What's wrong with hunting (shooting) animals? Pretty much all shooting in the UK has a legitimate reason behind it, and is often a source of meat (except things like rats, obviously). And it's far better from a welfare, health and environment point of view.

What about hunting for pest control, which usually produces some form of meat as well?
ooh that's interesting and definitely something to campaign for and work towards. the meat grown in labs would likely be 'purer' than animal meat because it would be specifically designed and created under controlled conditions. most animal agriculture isn't controlled so animal diets aren't optimal and feces often ends up in the finished product due to rushed and inefficient processing of animals

Original post by RFowler
What's wrong with hunting (shooting) animals? Pretty much all shooting in the UK has a legitimate reason behind it, and is often a source of meat (except things like rats, obviously). And it's far better from a welfare, health and environment point of view.

What about hunting for pest control, which usually produces some form of meat as well?


animals have inherent value and don't want to be killed. therefore we shouldn't take their lives unless absolutely necessary. hunting in england is almost always unnecessary, therefore we shouldn't
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Jimbo1234
Omni - and if there is an increase in vegan/vegetarians then it shows people's knowledge of nutrition is decreasing.


let's play spot the the egotist omnivore who has no concept of nutrition
I love how many awesome people are on this thread. I'm actually finding it difficult to spot the omnivores amongst the complete and utter legends that are vegetarian/vegan :h:


Q: If we could live happily and healthily without hurting sentient creatures, why the **** wouldn't we?
Original post by fairytalecolours

animals have inherent value and don't want to be killed. therefore we shouldn't take their lives unless absolutely necessary. hunting in england is almost always unnecessary, therefore we shouldn't


"Unnecessary" is pretty much irrelevant, considering how many aspects of modern life (that have all sorts of negative impacts) could be dismissed in the same way.

A lot of shooting is done for pest control, for things like agriculture, forestry and conservation purposes. Not "unnecessary" by any sensible definition of the word.
Original post by libbylangham
let's play spot the the egotist omnivore who has no concept of nutrition


And what proof do you have? What is your daily macro breakdown? :rolleyes:
Original post by fairytalecolours
eating meat is definitely bad for animals. no animal wants to be raised in conditions that range from ok to awful for a short time before they're driven to a slaughterhouse to meet their violent end.


Nice to meet you Doctor Doolittle. Worth noting that chickens really don't care and happily resort to cannibalism. Also, they're small, stupid, aggressive and try to start fights with everything despite having no real chance of winning. By rearing them we're actually giving them a better life than they would have got, because they'd pretty soon get ripped to shreds by a fox.
omni 4 liffe
Original post by fairytalecolours
indeed, you're correct :smile:



the transition to veganism will be extremely gradual, and animal agricultural conditions will worsen before they improve, simply because humans aren't yet aware of what's happening in the industry and more and more countries are becoming industrialised and westernised. once awareness increases, we'll see more and more people transitioning to organic/high welfare diets until eventually we won't raise animals for slaughter anymore. yes i am against people hunting animals in england unless they have no other option which as i said is extremely extremely unlikely.


But in your hypothesised future we won't raise animals for slaughter - will meat still be in the supermarket? Will it still he affordable? And if it isn't affordable or even available you are still against hunting to get it? Would you still call that unnecessary.

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Original post by RFowler
"Unnecessary" is pretty much irrelevant, considering how many aspects of modern life (that have all sorts of negative impacts) could be dismissed in the same way.

A lot of shooting is done for pest control, for things like agriculture, forestry and conservation purposes. Not "unnecessary" by any sensible definition of the word.


i agree that a lot of what we do in our society is harmful. the system is corrupt. the economic system is corrupt, the political system is corrupt, the law system is corrupt, the agricultural system is corrupt, the education system is corrupt/severely lacking and yeah, systems are corrupt by their very nature because a system is a construct and therefore not real. systems exist in the minds of humans rather than in physical reality. money is the sustenance of systems. we need to move from valuing money over Life to Life over money. we can quite clearly see that all the ills of the world are created by money. if someone doesn't have money, they aren't taken care of by the system. a lot of our self-image and therefore image of others is dependent on how much money one has. the more money someone has, the more they want. greed is a spiral and an unfortunate symptom of our society. the environment is destroyed for profit, those in power rule over us for profit, war is for profit, intensive agriculture is for profit. so yeah my point is that a lot of what we do is unnecessary and harmful, i agree, and hunting is part of that. we all have to do our bit to transform our home/local environment into somewhere worth living. we're a part of the system and we can't escape it so we have to face it and walk through it. think globally, act locally.

to be honest we need to leave nature alone. it's really not up to us whether or not a fox eats a chicken. if we keep chickens for food, why can't they eat those chickens too?conservation is about conserving and preserving, not destroying. we breed so many pheasants every year just so shoot them in the winter for sport. i's pretty ****ed up imo. imagine if we were bred and then let out into the wild to enjoy only months before we're mercilessly shot by someone with an inflated gun/ego.

Original post by Jimbo1234
And what proof do you have? What is your daily macro breakdown? :rolleyes:


i like you Jimbo and i'm going to give you lots of reps because you like Cartman and i don't think you deserve to have red bars

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Nice to meet you Doctor Doolittle. Worth noting that chickens really don't care and happily resort to cannibalism. Also, they're small, stupid, aggressive and try to start fights with everything despite having no real chance of winning. By rearing them we're actually giving them a better life than they would have got, because they'd pretty soon get ripped to shreds by a fox.


don't breed them, i'm sure they wouldn't mind not existing if they were never born :h:
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by fairytalecolours

don't breed them, i'm sure they wouldn't mind not existing if they were never born :h:


Or we could breed them, they get medical care and the world turned into their feeding grounds, and we get delicious, delicious meat.
Original post by Scrappy-coco
But in your hypothesised future we won't raise animals for slaughter - will meat still be in the supermarket? Will it still he affordable? And if it isn't affordable or even available you are still against hunting to get it? Would you still call that unnecessary.

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i like the idea of transitioning to synthetic meats. first we need to go entirely local, high welfare and organic; then we need to move into synthetic meats. from there it doesn't matter if someone eats synthetic meat or is vegan as no animals have to die for it.
Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
Or we could breed them, they get medical care and the world turned into their feeding grounds, and we get delicious, delicious meat.


would you mind eating chicken that was grown synthetically?
Original post by fairytalecolours
would you mind eating chicken that was grown synthetically?


I honestly couldn't care less, but synthetic meat is far too expensive for the majority to afford.
Original post by fairytalecolours
i agree that a lot of what we do in our society is harmful. the system is corrupt. the economic system is corrupt, the political system is corrupt, the law system is corrupt, the agricultural system is corrupt, the education system is corrupt/severely lacking and yeah, systems are corrupt by their very nature because a system is a construct and therefore not real. systems exist in the minds of humans rather than in physical reality. money is the sustenance of systems. we need to move from valuing money over Life to Life over money. we can quite clearly see that all the ills of the world are created by money. if someone doesn't have money, they aren't taken care of by the system. a lot of our self-image and therefore image of others is dependent on how much money one has. the more money someone has, the more they want. greed is a spiral and an unfortunate symptom of our society. the environment is destroyed for profit, those in power rule over us for profit, war is for profit, intensive agriculture is for profit. so yeah my point is that a lot of what we do is unnecessary and harmful, i agree, and hunting is part of that. we all have to do our bit to transform our home/local environment into somewhere worth living. we're a part of the system and we can't escape it so we have to face it and walk through it. think globally, act locally.

to be honest we need to leave nature alone. it's really not up to us whether or not a fox eats a chicken. if we keep chickens for food, why can't they eat those chickens too?conservation is about conserving and preserving, not destroying. we breed so many pheasants every year just so shoot them in the winter for sport. i's pretty ****ed up imo. imagine if we were bred and then let out into the wild to enjoy only months before we're mercilessly shot by someone with an inflated gun/ego.



i like you Jimbo and i'm going to give you lots of reps because you like Cartman and i don't think you deserve to have red bars



don't breed them, i'm sure they wouldn't mind not existing if they were never born :h:


Just a quick question - do you think a chicken outside captivity will be happier than one in it?

It's just with captivity, not only is their life determined to be so long (few months) the upshot is that farmers will try their best to keep them alive for a minimum time. Will chickens have this same luxury in the 'real' world? Survival isn't paradise. Disease and starvation as well as the seasons are very real dangers (I'd also argue if you're consistent with a good ecosystem you'd need to reintroduce predators for livestock)

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Original post by Stiff Little Fingers
I honestly couldn't care less, but synthetic meat is far too expensive for the majority to afford.


what if it were widely available and the same price as animal raised meat currently is?

Original post by Scrappy-coco
Just a quick question - do you think a chicken outside captivity will be happier than one in it?

It's just with captivity, not only is their life determined to be so long (few months) the upshot is that farmers will try their best to keep them alive for a minimum time. Will chickens have this same luxury in the 'real' world? Survival isn't paradise. Disease and starvation as well as the seasons are very real dangers (I'd also argue if you're consistent with a good ecosystem you'd need to reintroduce predators for livestock)

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i don't think we should breed chickens. the transition to synthetic meats/veganism will be gradual and any chickens that are alive after the transition will go to shelters to be taken care of until they die. i don't suppose that a chicken would survive comfortably in the wild after his or her domestication on a farm, nor do i think that modern chickens are suited to survive in the wild.
Original post by fairytalecolours
what if it were widely available and the same price as animal raised meat currently is?
.


Then I'd go depending on which tastes better.
Original post by Scrappy-coco
It's just with captivity, not only is their life determined to be so long (few months) the upshot is that farmers will try their best to keep them alive for a minimum time. Will chickens have this same luxury in the 'real' world? Survival isn't paradise. Disease and starvation as well as the seasons are very real dangers (I'd also argue if you're consistent with a good ecosystem you'd need to reintroduce predators for livestock)


In a world in which the factory farms have been shut down and the slaughterhouses outlawed, speciesism is rejected and nonhuman animal suffering is taken seriously, it's highly doubtful that we would introduce domesticated animals into the wild. What would most likely occur is that they will be kept in sanctuaries (which already exist to look after animals rescued from the meat industry) and phased out of existence.

It's also highly unlikely that wild-animal suffering won't be taken seriously, and I suspect we'd be much more inclined to intervene in nature to phase out, at the very least, predation, as some moral philosophers have already suggested.
Original post by viddy9
In a world in which the factory farms have been shut down and the slaughterhouses outlawed, speciesism is rejected and nonhuman animal suffering is taken seriously, it's highly doubtful that we would introduce domesticated animals into the wild. What would most likely occur is that they will be kept in sanctuaries (which already exist to look after animals rescued from the meat industry) and phased out of existence.

It's also highly unlikely that wild-animal suffering won't be taken seriously, and I suspect we'd be much more inclined to intervene in nature to phase out, at the very least, predation, as some moral philosophers have already suggested.


can you name the philosophers please? i've always been interested in this subject. i imagine that as we sort humanity out, we'll simultaneously assist and support the animal kingdom to eventually also reach a point where there's no suffering. as a kid i couldn't watch those nature shows where lions eat other animals. we're all still evolving and there's infinite potential for humanity and nature

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