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Russian plane crash - evidence pointing to bomb or missile - 224 dead

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Original post by Fullofsurprises
Gasp. So there must be new evidence. :eek4:


This apparently doesn't come from Russian/ Egyptian sources so it is almost certainly GCHQ analysing after the incident material intercepted beforehand.
Original post by The Blue Axolotl
You know what's truly sickening, this is only going to become more frequent so long as the US and its allies carry out attack on ISIS. It's just a vicious cycle.


I completely disagree with this, if every time there was a new ISIS insurgency or an IS linked terror attack, Britain and America carried out a disproportionately huge retaliation in addition to strategic strikes designed to support FSA and Kurds, then they would leave Western targets alone.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Not anti-Russian as such, but useful to the US (which is where, we now know, the intelligence has come from that the UK government is allegedly relying on) at the present time, as Putin is attacking anti-Assad forces but not (mainly) ISIS - the US would like the reverse to be true.

That's why RT is still hedging its bets.
https://www.rt.com/news/320762-uk-explosive-device-sinai/

CNN had continued until this morning to be sceptical although their reports are now covering the US and UK intelligence claims.


There's nothing I've seen to imply that the government is acting on actionable intelligence from the u.s.
All you need is somebody misquoted and all of a sudden you have circular reporting.
Original post by MatureStudent36
There's nothing I've seen to imply that the government is acting on actionable intelligence from the u.s.
All you need is somebody misquoted and all of a sudden you have circular reporting.


It's coming from the US, the UK is just following a US intelligence lead. From the BBC website just now:

"

After an emergency Cobra meeting on Wednesday evening Mr Hammond said there was a "significant possibility" the crash was caused by an explosive device on board the aircraft.It came after a US official told the Associated Press news agency they had reached the "tentative conclusion", after intercepting communications, that an affiliate of the Islamic State group in the Sinai peninsula had planted an explosive device.

"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34730104
Original post by Fullofsurprises
It's coming from the US, the UK is just following a US intelligence lead. From the BBC website just now:

"

After an emergency Cobra meeting on Wednesday evening Mr Hammond said there was a "significant possibility" the crash was caused by an explosive device on board the aircraft.It came after a US official told the Associated Press news agency they had reached the "tentative conclusion", after intercepting communications, that an affiliate of the Islamic State group in the Sinai peninsula had planted an explosive device.

"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34730104


I saw the Taliban claim responsibility for things that they never did. It's all part of the propoganda war.
it may be that Mossad have human intelligence from the region which they have shared with us.
Let Russia wage war on ISIS. The migrants can stay in the surrounding Middle Eastern countries. This isnt a European problem.

Original post by Fullofsurprises
It's looking like the evidence is increasingly pointing to a bomb on board, or a missile.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/02/sinai-plane-crash-russian-official-blames-external-factor-egypt

With over 200 ordinary Russians dead, it's unlikely that Putin will take this one on the chin. ISIS have already claimed responsibility. I would think that the war against them is about to move into a new phase. Russia is notoriously brutal in suppressing those who make acts of terror against it.

PS Perhaps the good thing from all this is that the Russians will now start concentrating on the real enemy - the Islamic extremists of ISIS - and not on just propping up Assad's ghastly fascist state. One can hope, anyway.
Original post by the bear
it may be that Mossad have human intelligence from the region which they have shared with us.


The Intel path being presumably Mossad >> CIA >> MI6 >> David Cameron. Please look for the weak link in that chain.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
The Intel path being presumably Mossad >> CIA >> MI6 >> David Cameron. Please look for the weak link in that chain.


Mossad >> Corbyn >> David Icke >> Iran >> Trump >> Hillary >> NCIS >> Cameron
Original post by the bear
Mossad >> Corbyn >> David Icke >> Iran >> Trump >> Hillary >> NCIS >> Cameron


Coco Chanel >> Mickey the Monkey >> Foofoo the Talking Hamster >> Mix 'n Match Spy-u-Like Superstore Haringey >> MI5 >> toilet cleaner in a pub on the Old Kent Rd >> Rt Hon Eric Pickles MP >> Adele >> Smoking Man from X Files >> The CIA >> President Obama >> Michael Sheen >> Monty Python's Flying Citrus >> Elle Macpherson >> Jeremy Clarkson >> David Cameron >> the BBC.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Coco Chanel >> Mickey the Monkey >> Foofoo the Talking Hamster >> Mix 'n Match Spy-u-Like Superstore Haringey >> MI5 >> toilet cleaner in a pub on the Old Kent Rd >> Rt Hon Eric Pickles MP >> Adele >> Smoking Man from X Files >> The CIA >> President Obama >> Michael Sheen >> Monty Python's Flying Citrus >> Elle Macpherson >> Jeremy Clarkson >> David Cameron >> the BBC.


you are joking right ? everyone knows that Foofoo has been turned.
Original post by Masih ad-Dajjal
I completely disagree with this, if every time there was a new ISIS insurgency or an IS linked terror attack, Britain and America carried out a disproportionately huge retaliation in addition to strategic strikes designed to support FSA and Kurds, then they would leave Western targets alone.


I think these sort of attacks only help to justify groups like ISIS and the messages they carry. The fact is that innocent people will always be killed in these attacks, and this will act of propaganda for groups like ISIS.

For example, why does North Korea still exist as a country? I would argue a large reason for the North Korean system still existing is partly because of the American invasion. The system is justified as a mean of fighting back against the 'imperialist' American army. If America has never invaded in the first place, then one could imagine the communist system of North Korea collapsing a long time ago like many other Communist nations.
Original post by The Epicurean
I think these sort of attacks only help to justify groups like ISIS and the messages they carry. The fact is that innocent people will always be killed in these attacks, and this will act of propaganda for groups like ISIS.

For example, why does North Korea still exist as a country? I would argue a large reason for the North Korean system still existing is partly because of the American invasion. The system is justified as a mean of fighting back against the 'imperialist' American army. If America has never invaded in the first place, then one could imagine the communist system of North Korea collapsing a long time ago like many other Communist nations.


Don't be such a wet flannel, ISIS doesn't exist because of some sort of moral argument they are winning with the West.


North Korea is Communist because Western forces didn't manage to kick the living **** out of them back in the Korean war thanks largely to their Chinese backing. Obviously we can't invade now because they have nukes and China is still a thing.
Original post by Masih ad-Dajjal
Don't be such a wet flannel, ISIS doesn't exist because of some sort of moral argument they are winning with the West.


It is not a moral argument they are winning. For as long as we continue to interfere, we are going to cause casualties and they are going to have that to use as propaganda. ISIS will merely be replaced by ISIS Version 2.0. Why do such groups keep springing up in the Middle East? And it seems that each incarnation is getting worse. We are not solving the root problem by attacking groups like ISIS.


Original post by Masih ad-Dajjal
North Korea is Communist because Western forces didn't manage to kick the living **** out of them back in the Korean war thanks largely to their Chinese backing. Obviously we can't invade now because they have nukes and China is still a thing.


Because we didn't and couldn't. It was obvious that the Chinese wouldn't have sat back and done nothing. So instead, what we have done is create an awful state that we have helped to legitimise by providing them with the perfect bogeyman from which to justify the existence of their state. Whereas a country like Ceaușescu's Romania didn't have such a bogeyman to justify their existence, and the state quite simply collapsed.
Original post by Masih ad-Dajjal
I completely disagree with this, if every time there was a new ISIS insurgency or an IS linked terror attack, Britain and America carried out a disproportionately huge retaliation in addition to strategic strikes designed to support FSA and Kurds, then they would leave Western targets alone.


They hate the West, they'll always have it for us no matter whether we don't get involved.
Original post by Masih ad-Dajjal
I completely disagree with this, if every time there was a new ISIS insurgency or an IS linked terror attack, Britain and America carried out a disproportionately huge retaliation in addition to strategic strikes designed to support FSA and Kurds, then they would leave Western targets alone.


Do you mean like in Afghanistan? You know - that place we invaded 14 years ago with the aim of eliminating terrorism and the Taliban? 14 years later and IS is the new Al Qaeda, the Taliban are retaking cities in Afghanistan by the week and most of the Middle East is in complete turmoil. You are right - we just need to keep bombing and killing. After all, if someone started bombing us, after a while, we would start doing what they told us no?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
It's looking like the evidence is increasingly pointing to a bomb on board, or a missile.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/02/sinai-plane-crash-russian-official-blames-external-factor-egypt

With over 200 ordinary Russians dead, it's unlikely that Putin will take this one on the chin. ISIS have already claimed responsibility. I would think that the war against them is about to move into a new phase. Russia is notoriously brutal in suppressing those who make acts of terror against it.

PS Perhaps the good thing from all this is that the Russians will now start concentrating on the real enemy - the Islamic extremists of ISIS - and not on just propping up Assad's ghastly fascist state. One can hope, anyway.


You've changed your mind. A few years ago you would happily lick the bums of Islamists.

I've been saying the exact same thing for years in a different account, but you always said I was xenophobic (against Russia) and Islamophobic (against Political Islamism). Well done for not being an idiot anymore.
Original post by The Epicurean
It is not a moral argument they are winning. For as long as we continue to interfere, we are going to cause casualties and they are going to have that to use as propaganda. ISIS will merely be replaced by ISIS Version 2.0. Why do such groups keep springing up in the Middle East? And it seems that each incarnation is getting worse. We are not solving the root problem by attacking groups like ISIS.



I agree with this. At the moment, everything the West does in the Middle East simply creates more and more hatred and bitterness, partly because the interventions are frequently clumsy and brutal. We have a long history of this stretching back to the end of the Ottoman Empire and even before, but it's no help just repeating it all the time.

We should probably disengage on a large scale, it it does complicate things a lot having mass flows of refugees heading from the Middle East and Islamic North Africa to Europe. We probably need to at least try to massively improve their economies rather than bombing them. However, ISIS and the situation regarding Islamist extremism of the Salafist and radical Shia sort, the way they use the situation in Israel and the combination of that with vicious societies built on poverty, oppression and ignorance in the Islamic world generally, combine together to create the perfect storm.

The Arab world is now the number one problem on earth apart from climate change and species/habitat destruction and we aren't addressing it remotely well. The main governments are still seeking to profit from it through arms sales and by buddying with corrupt, wealthy rulers.
Original post by AlwaysWatching
You've changed your mind. A few years ago you would happily lick the bums of Islamists.

I've been saying the exact same thing for years in a different account, but you always said I was xenophobic (against Russia) and Islamophobic (against Political Islamism). Well done for not being an idiot anymore.


I don't accept either of the ways you describe me. I'm certainly not pro-radical Salafism or extremist Islam and I don't remember ever being so. Can you cite a thread? I know it's difficult on TSR to dig up old threads. Perhaps you are confusing support for Palestinian causes with support for radical Islam, either deliberately or mistakenly?

I think I've always argued on TSR that the Putin government is plutocratic and totalitarian in nature and I haven't changed my mind. I've never been against Russians as people.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I don't accept either of the ways you describe me. I'm certainly not pro-radical Salafism or extremist Islam and I don't remember ever being so. Can you cite a thread? I know it's difficult on TSR to dig up old threads. Perhaps you are confusing support for Palestinian causes with support for radical Islam, either deliberately or mistakenly?

I think I've always argued on TSR that the Putin government is plutocratic and totalitarian in nature and I haven't changed my mind. I've never been against Russians as people.


Oh I can't remember which thread it was, it was years ago and I've been off here doing some serious **** since then and now I'm back. I think the actual thread got deleted because some morons decided to go full out racist. But you were defiantly on the licky licky bum bum side of things when it comes to Islamism. (This was before ISIS came about, around 2012/13)

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