Russian plane crash - evidence pointing to bomb or missile - 224 dead

It is not a moral argument they are winning. For as long as we continue to interfere, we are going to cause casualties and they are going to have that to use as propaganda. ISIS will merely be replaced by ISIS Version 2.0. Why do such groups keep springing up in the Middle East? And it seems that each incarnation is getting worse. We are not solving the root problem by attacking groups like ISIS.

Oh I can't remember which thread it was, it was years ago and I've been off here doing some serious **** since then and now I'm back. I think the actual thread got deleted because some morons decided to go full out racist. But you were defiantly on the licky licky bum bum side of things when it comes to Islamism. (This was before ISIS came about, around 2012/13)

Why are such groups springing up in Africa and the far East?

I don't accept that. I recall arguing against people many times who are simply being bigoted against Islam. There's a difficulty here, because all the hate and agitprop of ISIS and the like is at least partly designed to produce a wave of hate back from western communities against average Muslims and drive the latter into the hands of the extremists. If we can't distinguish extremist cults like ISIS from mainstream Islam then we have no chance and we may as well declare World War 3 here and now. Maybe that's what some people think they want. There's such a lot of cluelessness and ignorance about Islam from many people. I suspect you are in a category of people who feel that they hate it as a religion without understanding anything about it. I'm not religious myself but there's a difference between making ignorant remarks about it, commenting constructively and 'bumming' as you put it.

And yet the same book and region gave rise to the Sudanese pacifist Mahmoud Taha. The Bible contains many abhorrent verses which we can see giving rise to homophobia in Uganda and such, but ultimately we aren't seeing any modern day Crusades or Christian versions of ISIS.

Like any religion, Islam is just as much subject to interpretation. Fundamentally, I think there is far more at play here and that Islamism is far more complex than many appreciate.

I understand Islam and I've spent a lot of time learning about Islam, some of my friends are Muslim. My main problem (other than the fact that it has some very disgusting moral positions) is with political Islam. I have always been explicit about that. I distinctly remember you trying to argue that Islam was not homophobic and we should not criticize homophobic verses within the Qur'an and other scriptures, and you kept banging on about the Iraq war as a response and I was an "Islamophobic". I can't find the thread, but it was certainly you and I'll link it if I find it and it isn't deleted.

Well yes, not every single person who is muslim and reads the Quran is going to become a terrorist but you simply cannot deny that 99.8% of terrorism around the world is commited by Muslims in the name of Allah. You would have to be insane to assign the blame of terrorism on other factors.

That's quite a claim. One person's freedom fighter is another's terrorist, but I doubt that it's remotely true that almost 100% of terror attacks (I assume we are talking about non-governmental attacks against civilian or military targets as part of a campaign using violent means) are Islamist in origin. There are many groups fighting many causes around the world, although admittedly there has been something of a lull in recent years in some traditional flashpoints such as Latin America, Northern Ireland, the Indian subcontinent and Sri Lanka and parts of E. Asia.

Ok, 95%?

Well yes, not every single person who is muslim and reads the Quran is going to become a terrorist but you simply cannot deny that 99.8% of terrorism around the world is commited by Muslims in the name of Allah. You would have to be insane to assign the blame of terrorism on other factors.

Now i agree other factors contribute to propaganda such as western involvement and what not because it is easy to use that as propaganda but that simply does not make that example the cause or reason behind terrorist activity.

Christianity is littered with bloodshed aswell. It has had to grow up under the scrutiny and freedom in western countries and has come through its dark ages and is slowly dying away

I think you are mistaken, I don't believe that I would have defended homophobic positions. However, I might have been involved in threads in Religion where people were casting particular passages as meaning one thing and not agreeing. However, I actually think you are simply mistaken as I have no recollection at all of a specific discussion on allegedly homophobic passages in the Quran.

Anyway, this is getting off topic.

It's true that we're going through an Islamist extremist phase.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2014

What has happened to some extent is that previous terrorist campaigns have been halted due to political fixes, such as Northern Ireland, Basque country, Colombia/FARC, etc. These things seem to go in waves.

They hate the West, they'll always have it for us no matter whether we don't get involved.

Do you mean like in Afghanistan? You know - that place we invaded 14 years ago with the aim of eliminating terrorism and the Taliban? 14 years later and IS is the new Al Qaeda, the Taliban are retaking cities in Afghanistan by the week and most of the Middle East is in complete turmoil. You are right - we just need to keep bombing and killing. After all, if someone started bombing us, after a while, we would start doing what they told us no?

True, the least we can do is teach them respect.

They're absolutely barbaric... they no nothing of respect and never will.

Indeed, I don't think anyone would deny that Islamism has a huge support base and that is a big problem that needs addressing. But I would argue that progressive Islam and progressive Muslims (not so called "moderate" Muslims), are just as much opposed to Islamism and that progressive Islam represents the strongest weapon we have against Islamism. So whilst we can point to Quran and say "here is the culprit", we could also equally point to the Quran and say "here is the solution" as progressive Islam does represent a step forward.

This I believe is the fundamental point. Christianity has been through a reformation and has progressed. What we need is an Islamic reformation. In fact, I believe that ISIS has the potential to be the impetus that drives Islam through a reformation.

ISIS and the Soviet Union are incomparable!!