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The user did claim that you can't be racist towards Islam.

I demonstrated that those who often say that, are the ones who are trying to mask their own inherent racism.

I then went onto explain exactly how this would manifest itself, not just with Islam, but with Catholicism or indeed, any other ideology.

You have decided to take issue with my reasoning but to date, you have failed to enlighten me as to your objections, choosing to skirt around the issue by making irrelevant statements and asking pointless questions.

If you do have an issue with any of my assertions, then please, feel free to inform me.

In your own time.

So you can't be racist toward islam. You can use it as a mask for your own racism, but as it's not a race you can't be racist toward it.

Reply 401

TheArtofProtest

Original post by Skip_Snip

So you can't be racist toward islam. You can use it as a mask for your own racism, but as it's not a race you can't be racist toward it.

It's quite ludicrous of you to suggest that you can be racist towards an ideology.

Reply 402

QE2

Original post by scrotgrot

So why do Islamophobes attack Muslims who may not be practising or even if they are are probably not political Islamists?

It would seem likely that those attacks would be of a racist/xenophobic nature, and not because the attacker has an ideological opposition to Islam.

There seem to be two groups who conflate Muslims with "Brown Foreigners". Right-wing racist xenophobes, and left-wing liberal cultural relativists.

Reply 403

QE2

Original post by TheArtofProtest

Most Islamaphobia is targeted towards people who are brown, in the mistaken assumption that brown = Muslim, as perpetuated by the media.

But that would be racism/xenophobia, by definition!

Most people who attack Muslims or those they perceive to be Muslims through the colour of their skin are actually racists. Most of the time, it has nothing to do with political Islam, but just another guise to let out the racist in you, and then trying to justify it by saying that you are against political Islam.

So people need to stop calling it "Islamophobia" when it is clearly "Racist Xenophobia".

The whole concept of "Islamophobia" was created in an attempt to attach the stigma of racism to legitimate criticism of Islamic ideology. And a lot of people seem to have fallen for it, possibly in an attempt to avoid appering "racist" themselves. It is a clever bit of propagandist deflection that Goebbels himself would have been proud of.

Reply 404

eoe

Too many Islamophobes on this tsr.....................

Reply 405

QE2

Original post by TheArtofProtest

The ones that try to cover their inherent racism through attacks on what they consider political Islam, but it's merely an excuse to bash some people who are not white.

On the contrary, it would appear that it is you who is displaying the inherent racism by insisting that everyone conflates "brown foreigners" with "Muslims". You may make that connection, but I certainly don't, nor does anyone I know, be they atheists, Christians or whatever. By insisting that any criticism of Islam is actually because all Muslims are brown foreigners suggests that you cannot separate the two concepts yourself. However, many of us can.

The attempt to attach the "Islamophobe" label onto plain old racist xenophobes is disingenuous and unwarranted.

Reply 406

QE2

Original post by myabzz

show me where it says that

Really?
You are not aware of the many verses, and the support from hadith and tafsir, that command and encourage violence in the cause of spreading Islam?

It seems kinda odd to be defending Islam when you are not aware of the contents of its ideology.

Reply 407

QE2

Original post by billydisco

Wherever Islam spreads, violence follows. Is it wrong for us to not want violence here?

It is apparent that when Muslims are in a minority, they demand tolerance and respect for their culture and belief. However, all too often where they are in the majority, that society shows little tolerance and respect to other cultures and beliefs.

Reply 408

QE2

Original post by myabzz

actualy that is wrong, the verse is talking about a war. it mentions an offensive war, however he clearly stated that war is the last resort and can only be done when you can not live peacefully and everything else has failed. however in todays society, majority of people are more than happy to live peacefully. the rest of the website is nonsense. i.e you should fight for and only for god. that doesnt mean kill people randomly.

"Fight until all religion is for Allah and there is no more disbelief".
"Kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush."
"Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and who attempt corruption is none but that they be killed..."

How are these verses permitting only self-defence?

Reply 409

QE2

Original post by TheArtofProtest

Well, if you're basing that assertion upon a group of people who happen to be of a particular colour

There! You're doing it again!

Please understand that all Muslims are not the same colour. There are millions of white Muslims, black Muslims and SE Asian Muslims. They are not all whatever you think they are (Arab/Pakistani, I am guessing - which are two different ethnic groups, BTW)
They are not all the same colour or race!

Reply 410

QE2

Original post by TheArtofProtest

My post, illustrating how inherent racist qualities often manifest themselves under the pretext of Islamophobia

Wrong.
Racist and xenophibic behaviour is often labelled as "Islamophobic" in an attempt to stifle genuine criticism of an ideology.

Your argument seems to consist of nothing more than "I think all Muslims are brown foreigners, therefore everybody else must do".

Reply 411

QE2

Original post by TheArtofProtest

The user did claim that you can't be racist towards Islam.

Which you cannot, by definition.

I demonstrated that those who often say that, are the ones who are trying to mask their own inherent racism.

You did no such thing. You merely demonstrated that you conflate "Muslim" with "Brown Foreigner"

Reply 412

TheArtofProtest

@QE2 - I appreciate the multitude of responses that I have received from you in the last couple of minutes or so, all with relatively duplicated answers.

I understand that your eagerness to make a point but effective duplication of your argument is perhaps not the most constructive manner in which you are able to present an argument.

Putting that aside, you seem to be under the misconception that I have equated brown people with Muslims. As I have explained throughout my posts, and no doubt you came across them when you decided to individually respond to many of them, my view is formed from observations of arguments that you have chosen to label as "legitimate criticism".

I am simply analysing the arguments that you consider as "valid criticisms" of Islam and seeing if they simply corroborate with the teachings of Islam.

In my analysis of such arguments, I have found that constant and specific references to colour and ethnicity are pervasive by those who put forward such arguments. However, in an attempt to appear as a non-racist, they frame their arguments as attacks against an ideology, an ideology I might add, that may not even advocate practices engaged in by it's adherents.

Therefore, I would consider such statements or assertions as Islamophobic as they seem to subconsciously possess an irrational fear of Islam, and/or Muslims.

Whether their arguments are derived from the actions of brown or black Muslims, or from Pakistani or Chinese Muslims, is completely irrelevant if it have no basis in ideology. The fact that they are a racist and an Islamophobe escapes many who protest that "You can't be racist towards an ideology". They are, of course, correct in a sense but I have found many that are indirectly racist towards an ideology, by defining and attributing actions of a particular group of people, and applying it across a whole spectrum of those who share similar beliefs.

Reply 413

Ribbit1234

Original post by Schrödingers Cat

Islamophobia isn't a word and shouldn't be used for such things as violence against Muslims

People should be free to criticise barbaric and backwards ideologies such as Islam otherwise if everyone stays quite and is afraid of speaking out in case they're "islamophobic" we might end up in in a society where gays are thrown off roofs and women are slaves in the houses.

Ermm.. We're not slaves in the house..

Reply 414

Schrödingers Cat

Original post by Ribbit1234

Ermm.. We're not slaves in the house..

Not yet

Reply 415

myabzz

Original post by QE2

Once again it has been taken out of context. If you really want the truth then read this:

9:1 [This is a declaration of] disassociation, from Allah and His Messenger, to those with whom you had made a treaty among the polytheists.
9:2 So travel freely, [O disbelievers], throughout the land [during] four months but know that you cannot cause failure to Allah and that Allah will disgrace the disbelievers.
9:3 And [it is] an announcement from Allah and His Messenger to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah is disassociated from the disbelievers, and [so is] His Messenger. So if you repent, that is best for you; but if you turn away – then know that you will not cause failure to Allah . And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful punishment.
9:4 Excepted are those with whom you made a treatyamong the polytheists and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].
9:5 And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
9:6 And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah. Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

Reply 416

myabzz

Original post by QE2

Telling me that there are does not really prove anything. If you really want to know what I believe about Islam ask me a question and i will answer. If you are just trying to kick a fuss then there is no point discussing anything.

Reply 417

driftawaay

Solution: Abolish the open doors to everyone system

Reply 418

WilliamParker

Where is sikhophobia or hinduphobia???

There isn't any because they are generally nice people and fit in well in this country.

Islam is a terrible religion and the so called moderates don't make up for the evils Islam

Reply 419

QE2

Original post by TheArtofProtest

In my analysis of such arguments, I have found that constant and specific references to colour and ethnicity are pervasive by those who put forward such arguments.

You will need to provide evidence of this in the context of critics Islamic ideology, rather than simply those saying "Muslims go home".

However, in an attempt to appear as a non-racist, they frame their arguments as attacks against an ideology,

So, in other words, their arguments are not actually racist, but you are assuming that they must be because you are unable to separate the idea of Muslims and Brown Foreigners.

an ideology I might add, that may not even advocate practices engaged in by it's adherents.

Irrelevant, as it is the content of the ideology that is being criticised, not the behaviour of its followers. A connection can then be made between the ideology and the actions of some Muslims, as well as the claims of other Muslims that some Muslims are not True Muslims, etc, despite the "NTMs" actions being demonstrably justified by the ideology.

Therefore, I would consider such statements or assertions as Islamophobic as they seem to subconsciously possess an irrational fear of Islam, and/or Muslims.

You are still failing to establish a connection between criticism of an ideology and racism, other than your claim that all Muslims are the same race.

Whether their arguments are derived from the actions of brown or black Muslims, or from Pakistani or Chinese Muslims, is completely irrelevant if it have no basis in ideology. The fact that they are a racist and an Islamophobe escapes many who protest that "You can't be racist towards an ideology". They are, of course, correct in a sense but I have found many that are indirectly racist towards an ideology, by defining and attributing actions of a particular group of people, and applying it across a whole spectrum of those who share similar beliefs.

This statement again fails to support your claim. All it does is further highlight your own prejudice that anyone who criticises Islam must be racist.

Again, your argument seems to rest of the fallacious assumption that all critics of Islam think that all Muslims are Brown Foreigners and should "go home".

Your appreciation of this issue seems somewhat naive and lacking in nuance. Perhaps you have never actually encountered any ideological critics of Islam, but your presence on here would suggest otherwise.