Inside America's first all-vegan school

your probably not very fit or muscly tho hun? ye you can be in good health xxx

Animals are not sentient beings, and there are plenty of things that can be done in the meat industry to reduce the environmental impact. If we stop doing everything that might hurt the environment, we won't have any quality of life to speak of.

I'm mostly thinking of complete proteins and amino acids found in meat, as well as Vitamin B12, and a certain kind of iron more easily absorbed by the body. If anything, women need meat more than men do because of iron.

Nonhuman animals have conscious experiences, have the capacity to feel pain and suffer, and therefore have the capacity for their lives to go well or badly, and some aren't just sentient but they're also self-aware (chimpanzees and other primates, dolphins, elephants and some birds, for instance), demonstrably more self-aware than a human infant or a severely intellectually disabled human.

There's an overwhelming pile of scientific evidence in favour of this: there's just as much evidence in favour most nonhuman animals being sentient as there is in favour of you being sentient (from my perspective): we share the same neurophysiological structures associated with being able to feel and have conscious experiences, which are evolutionarily ancient; we share the same behavioural responses when we suffer and are subjected to pain, and so on.

To claim that only humans are sentient is akin to me claiming that only myself and people who were born after me are sentient: since Darwin, we've known that there is no dividing line between humans and nonhuman animals.

And no, there aren't plenty of things that can be done in the meat industry to reduce the environmental impact. Just think about it: to meet the current demand for meat, we need to grow crops to feed the animals; transport them to the farms; use energy to power the farms, which will produce a lot of waste from the animals, and methane emissions from cows; transport the animals to the slaughterhouse; use energy to power the slaughterhouse; and then transport the meat to all the shops.

It's very easy to get all of the essential amino acids on a plant-based diet: soya, for instance, is a complete protein, or you could simply mix and match different foods as you would do in everyday life: a serving of rice and a bean curry would get you all of the essential amino acids.

You don't need Vitamin B12 in every meal, so that doesn't apply to this topic. Iron is found in kale, broccoli and numerous other plant-based foods, but again, you don't need iron in every single meal.

Meat is part of a healthy and balanced diet, this is not healthy this is like carrying or an experiment on children.


Americans should learn not to get so fanatical in their ideas, if I lived in America I would never pledge allegiance to their stupid flag.

Too much meat is unhealthy though and I eat meat myself

I am vegan and more muscular than most women I know. I was vegan when I became a beach lifeguard a few years ago and the training alone requires a high level of endurance, stamina and strength to even complete the training course which many many fail. I passed a course and the season which caused many 'buff' intense athletes to drop out of because they couldn't hack it.

If you're a personal trainer you should be very aware of the high protein content of legumes (beans, chickpeas, lentils), tofu, tempeh, nuts, nut milks, grains (spelt, quinoa, brown rice, etc), veggies, meat alternatives (many from wheat gluten which has a high protein content or soy).

I think it's quite a generalization to make about vegans not being very fit or muscular. All of the vegans I know are very athletic and very much care about their health and well being. They are not dying in a corner with protein deficiencies. I'm sure if you're a personal trainier you work with people who are very much out of shape, not muscular and are probably not getting key nutrients from their meat eating diets. I'm not saying all vegans are in shape but again not all those who eat meat are in shape and healthy either...

If there is anyone to destroy this odd stereotype of vegans being weak and unfit - please look up Germany's Strongest Man Patrik Baboubian who is vegan.

I'm mostly thinking of complete proteins and amino acids found in meat, as well as Vitamin B12, and a certain kind of iron more easily absorbed by the body. If anything, women need meat more than men do because of iron.

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There are amino acids you can only get from meat,

in general a vegan diet is unhealthy.

Meat is part of a healthy and balanced diet, this is not healthy this is like carrying or an experiment on children.


Americans should learn not to get so fanatical in their ideas, if I lived in America I would never pledge allegiance to their stupid flag.

Can you elaborate on this? As you say, "low protein" rather than vegetarianism - basically if they can stuff themselves on protein from other sources, it should be fine. However, there are no Hindu professional footballers... which is kind of random, I know, please don't get hung up on this point - this is just a random observation that made me wonder in the past whether, in general, there is a link between vegetarianism and lack of athleticism in professional sports.

Would send kid to school with a glorious packed lunch full of beefy goodness so he can eat it in the face of all the vegan peasants.

You do realisethat vegan food can be absolutely delicious.
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Lold hard

The only thing that I can see lacking is vitamins B12 and to an extent B3. But you can supplement these easily by taking B vitamins...

There is actually significant evidence to show that a vegetarian diet may be good for children. They are far less likely to overconsume junk food because there is far less junk food available. Much of the harm is taken out by removing the meat anyway. I am yet to see a scare story about soya or tofu causing cancer.

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Well, I don't think we're using the same definition of sentience. You seem to be defining it as the ability to feel pain or other emotions. I would define it as intelligence and self-awareness.

Without intelligence, pain is less meaningful. I don't think the pain of animals is meaningful because they're not intelligent.

An animal isn't sentient even though it is self-aware, because it is not intelligent.

Besides, if there is no dividing line, then why is it okay for Tigers or even omnivores like Bears to eat meat as a part of their diet? By your argument they should be held to the same ethical standards. If you would argue that they aren't intelligent enough to understand the ethical implications, then you undermine your own argument that they are sentient in the same way as a human being. There's a dividing line either way.

I was also thinking of humane farming practices, things like free-range chickens. I think humane slaughter methods more than fulfill any ethical obligations we may have towards animals.

Cows are probably the worst example. There are meats that are more environmentally friendly to produce, like fish or even chicken.

Also, we're working on ways to grow meat in labs without a need to actually raise the animal and slaughter it, simply for the sake of efficiency.

The essential ones, yes. I'm not saying you'll die without meat, but I do think that you need at least some meat every week or so to be completely healthy.

There are amino acids you can only get from meat, but they're not essential to life and aren't readily produced by the body. You may not need them, but they are good for you.

Yes, but the iron found in vegetables is less readily absorbed by the body. The kind found in certain meats is more bio-available.

Vegetarian is not inherently any healthier than diets that include meat.