Are you for or against euthanasia?

I don't think you've understood the difference between euthanasia and assisted suicide.
Euthanasia is when a doctor would end your life usually to stop your suffering. That doesn't mean you can't consent to it. Assisted suicide is when someone helps you to end your own life, usually a clinician - this is usually called PAS (physician assisted suicide) and is the model used in America. So the difference between euthanasia and assisted suicide hinges on WHO is doing the ending of life.

Euthanasia that does not require any consent would be either be involuntary or non-voluntary euthanasia. Non-voluntary euthanasia is where someone is unable to consent e.g. those in a coma or PVS. Involuntary is where a person's life is ended when they have either not consented to it or given no indication that they wanted it so this category mostly aligns with the Shipman saga, and would generally be classified as murder. But, saying 'euthanasia doesn't require consent' is incorrect because there are different categories of euthanasia. The bill for legalising euthanasia that was debated in the Commons in September involved two clinicians signing off the patient e.g. checking that they were competent to consent.

Doctors who don't want to participate wouldn't have to - we can't, and wouldn't, force them to do this. But there are doctors who would do it. On my MA in Medical Ethics and Law there are plenty of doctors and nurses who are for euthanasia and would help those suffering if they needed to. No clinician who felt uncomfortable with it would have to do this and we would certainly not 'lose' them, they would continue their job and when the situation arose someone else would take over.

Also worth pointing out that the poll in question was carried out on 2003 so it's impossible to say whether this still holds true now. It also doesn't say where or which group of doctors this poll was carried out on - a simple google search for that particular poll brings up the Christian Medical Fellowship for me, which if true, is obvious that most religious doctors will not want to take part? That doesn't mean that lots of secular doctors wouldn't. It's the kind of scaremongering you see from the Daily Mail '99% of people think immigrants are taking all our jobs!!!!!'

I understand that you are against euthanasia and therefore I'm not going to try and force my own views on you but please take that source with a pinch of salt - it is very clearly biased against euthanasia and is therefore not particularly reliable. I noted in your other post that you said euthanasia doesn't involve consent which is completely false and I imagine you got that information from this website. I'm all for having your own opinion and I completely see why some people are against euthanasia, but your opinion should be based on correct information at least. Also that website vastly downplays the doctrine of double effect, it's basically a way of allowing euthanasia except it takes longer. And the withdrawal of treatment you mentioned is a horrific thing to do to patients who are suffering, dying from starvation and dehydration can take a long time and be extremely painful (happened to my boyfriend's grandparent and it was horrible)

Sorry for two long posts. This is something I am very interested in having covered this in detail on both my undergraduate and postgraduate degrees.

My source for the general definition of euthanasia (which is all that is mentioned in the OP) was http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Euthanasiaandassistedsuicide/Pages/Introduction.aspx if the OP didn't specify voluntary/involuntary then they have a very easy debating point to argue against because the point for debate does NOT specify any sort of consent from the patient is required.

I'm not interested in discussing the ins and outs - I've stated my beliefs on assisted suicide, euthanasia and how I feel it is dangerous and ablist elsewhere on TSR.

My purpose for posting on this thread was to provide the OP with some of the main (non religious) arguments against euthanasia - especially those of disabled people who are generally ignored in these debates over people shouting loudly about their lives are not worth living or that their mental health is less important than someone who isn't disabled. EVERY source on this topic is biased - the statistics on the doctors agreement came from the BMA and Palliative care royal college and so is easy to source and reliable to use. If you're interested in reading more about the issues disabled people already face when dealing with a medical profession that makes quality of life judgements without including patients then http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mik-scarlet/when-no-means-yes-for-you_b_5472241.html is well worth a read.

Personally I've got my own living will on file - I'd recommend anyone who feels strongly either way about these issues does the same. It's by far the easiest way to get your wishes recorded in a way that has legal weight.

I'll have to have a look for your other posts, I'm very interested that you think it's ableist as I think NOT having a euthanasia or PAS pathway is ableist and I intend to write my MA diss on human rights and eithasnasia so I would be interested in your side of it

@Sazzy890 @Lozzie97 @Simes @Starvation13 @z33 @Geek_shay


No decision can truly be reached about whether one is for or against euthanasia without watching BBC's 2011 programme 'Choosing to Die'.

I've seen that
I cried... so much

I'm not saying everyone should I'm saying people should have the choice
I mean you can abort your baby but can't end your own life? (I'm pro-choice btw)

and look how nicely it's done and how they go so happy by their own choice and can say their goodbye's and die in their loved ones' arms and it's just nicer for them.

@Simes

No decision can truly be reached about whether one is for or against euthanasia without watching BBC's 2011 programme 'Choosing to Die'.

can anyone give me any points that are against and what would the counter arguments be ...

The crux of it is
- if a person goes to their GP and says they want to kill themself then the GP refers them for psychiatric support and help.
The idea that if a disabled person or person with a life-limiting condition did this and the doctor replied with "yup you're right your life isn't worth living - let me help you die" then that's a sign of a massive level of disablism in our society.

A friend wrote a very good blog post that explains this in better words than I have - I'll try to dig it out

If I gave the impression I was against it, that was because I was responding to the OP's request:


Personally, I would support informed assisted suicide where there is medical supervision and approval. I think one should have the right to choose to die.

However, I am unhappy about medically-initiated euthanasia (i.e. a medical company's accountants deciding who it is cost-effective to dispose of).

The grey area between is an emotional and ethical mess.

But we all know Cameron's calibre don't we? He takes forever to get anything done.

I am all for any politician making changes slowly. History is littered with cases of knee-jerk reactions by governments taking years to fix. National-level stuff ought to be done slowly. For example, deciding on a whim to suddenly spend billions on extra security as a knee-jerk reaction in response to what happened in Paris - five years of austerity thrown away and wasted. That's not a party-political statement, by the way. Merely highlighting how all politicians are dick-heads.

I don't mean to sound like a @$$hole but I seriously cannot be bothered. It's why I voted no opinion in the poll that's currently going on.

I'll have to have a look for your other posts, I'm very interested that you think it's ableist as I think NOT having a euthanasia or PAS pathway is ableist and I intend to write my MA diss on human rights and eithasnasia so I would be interested in your side of it

The GP shouldn't say that. If it was legal then they shouldn't give the patient their opinion in that area and should just give them the options that are available to them(psychiatric help or euthanasia or other) and stress that it's not a decision to be taken lightly.
Your case would be malpractice on the part of the GP.

. even if your an atheist ,studies actually shown that euthanasias patients actually regret agreeing to it ,due to it being more painful then the pain that they are already in.