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The Liverpool FC Thread XIV
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Original post by mr tim
So BR hasn't won against Chelsea/Man City away in 3 years as LFC manager and Klopp's did it in his 1st go.
Nice result though, wasn't expecting that. Firmino and Coutinho played very well. Could have had more.
Seems that some were complaining on Benteke not being on the XI with Kompany out, guess it paid off.
Nice result though, wasn't expecting that. Firmino and Coutinho played very well. Could have had more.
Seems that some were complaining on Benteke not being on the XI with Kompany out, guess it paid off.
Klopp has not had an easy introduction at Liverpool, but away from Anfield he has made light work of a daunting list of fixtures.
He opened his reign with a goalless draw at Tottenham but the wins at reigning champions Chelsea and title favourites Manchester City have spoken most eloquently of how he has quickly instilled belief into a team that had lost its way in the 18 months before his arrival.
Predecessor Rodgers did not beat a top-four team until his ninth attempt and had only one win in his first 12. Furthermore, it took until his eighth attempt to beat a top four side away from home but Klopp has won his first two.
He opened his reign with a goalless draw at Tottenham but the wins at reigning champions Chelsea and title favourites Manchester City have spoken most eloquently of how he has quickly instilled belief into a team that had lost its way in the 18 months before his arrival.
Predecessor Rodgers did not beat a top-four team until his ninth attempt and had only one win in his first 12. Furthermore, it took until his eighth attempt to beat a top four side away from home but Klopp has won his first two.
Amazing stats for both Rodgers/Klopp.
Now Klopp needs to quickly turn this side into flat track bullies
Liverpool V Bordeaux (EL)
Liverpool V Swansea
Southampton V Liverpool (League Cup)
Newcastle V Liverpool
FC Sion V Liverpool (EL)
Liverpool V West Brom
Watford V Liverpool
Liverpool V Leicester
Sunderland V Liverpool
A great win and a great day yesterday.
Firmino had his best game since joining - and that's what we paid the money for. He linked up so well with Coutinho, it was scintillating in the first-half and up there with 2013-14 in terms of quality.
The link-up play was excellent, really well controlled, majestic in places. I thought Milner had his best game in a Reds shirt, and I could give everybody 8s or above bar Mignolet really.
His kicking was dreadful, but I won't let that take the shine off a first-half performance (away from home against the champions) which was excellent and clinical: two words you wouldn't associate with us post-Suarez.
They had a three minute spell at the start when they were on top, but we were so vastly superior post-that and Demichelis' inclusion played them into trouble. He showed nothing in resistance to us, with our pressing and urgency sending them dizzy. It was probably similar to Tottenham's performance at the Emirates the other week, but with more end product and lasting an intense full 45 minutes.
We pressed in the right way: we knew when to press, where to press, how to press. We weren't running ourselves into the ground, and for a team playing without a striker, our finishing was remarkable. At times, Coutinho and Firmino seemed to have an in-competition on who was having the most fun. They practically tossed a coin to decide who scored the third ffs.
Coutinho's goal was the key one. City could probably have hoped for a foothold at that stage after a flailing start, but Yaya Toure offered nothing. My favourite goal was the third, despite the great team nature of the first and second. A great backheel from Can - and it was great to see him get forward with invention and enterprise.
We never seem fazed going forward, and we seemed calm - which I think is Klopp's influence. Until Benteke came on, you probably couldn't pin down anybody in front of Lucas in terms of position. They were so fluid, and that caused City problems.
We know Chelsea and yesterday wasn't a fluke. We bullied them, and Lallana deserves a mention too. A supreme performance from him. At 3-0, it seemed to be damage limitation for City, but they became even more less potent when they brought on ball-winning midfielders at that score line. They were desperately looking for a foothold.
I think the most pleasing aspect was the second half, because we knew the game was won and we didn't lose our heads. We just simply...saw it out. With an added goal from Skrtel - who probably wants to play City every week given his scoring record against them - to boot!
Firmino had his best game since joining - and that's what we paid the money for. He linked up so well with Coutinho, it was scintillating in the first-half and up there with 2013-14 in terms of quality.
The link-up play was excellent, really well controlled, majestic in places. I thought Milner had his best game in a Reds shirt, and I could give everybody 8s or above bar Mignolet really.
His kicking was dreadful, but I won't let that take the shine off a first-half performance (away from home against the champions) which was excellent and clinical: two words you wouldn't associate with us post-Suarez.
They had a three minute spell at the start when they were on top, but we were so vastly superior post-that and Demichelis' inclusion played them into trouble. He showed nothing in resistance to us, with our pressing and urgency sending them dizzy. It was probably similar to Tottenham's performance at the Emirates the other week, but with more end product and lasting an intense full 45 minutes.
We pressed in the right way: we knew when to press, where to press, how to press. We weren't running ourselves into the ground, and for a team playing without a striker, our finishing was remarkable. At times, Coutinho and Firmino seemed to have an in-competition on who was having the most fun. They practically tossed a coin to decide who scored the third ffs.
Coutinho's goal was the key one. City could probably have hoped for a foothold at that stage after a flailing start, but Yaya Toure offered nothing. My favourite goal was the third, despite the great team nature of the first and second. A great backheel from Can - and it was great to see him get forward with invention and enterprise.
We never seem fazed going forward, and we seemed calm - which I think is Klopp's influence. Until Benteke came on, you probably couldn't pin down anybody in front of Lucas in terms of position. They were so fluid, and that caused City problems.
We know Chelsea and yesterday wasn't a fluke. We bullied them, and Lallana deserves a mention too. A supreme performance from him. At 3-0, it seemed to be damage limitation for City, but they became even more less potent when they brought on ball-winning midfielders at that score line. They were desperately looking for a foothold.
I think the most pleasing aspect was the second half, because we knew the game was won and we didn't lose our heads. We just simply...saw it out. With an added goal from Skrtel - who probably wants to play City every week given his scoring record against them - to boot!
Original post by AsandaLFC
Sturridge is done. Don't think he will ever fit in klopps pressing game esp. Given hes a injury prone.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
See now I disagree.
While Sturridge is never going to be a 50-60 game a season striker nor press to the same intensity as Ings or Firmino, he should still give you a faster press than Benteke.
While Benteke isn't slow, he takes a few yards to build up steam. You could see it in the game yesterday when he should've been clean through. Sturridge would've raced clear whereas Benteke slowed to stop Mangala and then tried to score.
So Sturridge will fit into a press in mid/lower table teams where he will need to press some but not all game compared to games like Man City where we need a lot of pressing.
The other thing which can't be ignored is how good a goal scorer Sturridge is. You won't get the same clinical finishing from Ings or Firmino etc nor the goals from nothing.
The main thing is, which is double edged, is Sturridge's huge contract. He signed a 5 year contract in summer 2014 which was reported to be 150k a week (though I would note that this source http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/01/daniel-sturridge-new-deal-liverpool states that the contract would be in keeping with Liverpool’s recent policy of offering performance- and achievement-based contracts).
Very few clubs will be willing to come in for him on such high wages and his injury record so he won't be easy to shift. So he won't want to leave or we'll have to pay a lot of money to get rid of him. We don't have a big squad so we're not worried about the 25 man squad limit.
The other side of the coin is the dearth of quality strikers out there. Look at Man Utd paying 35-70mil for Martial for example. So why get rid of a player when we won't be able to replace his quality?
What we need to do is revise his contract and then think of him a star super-sub where we can manage him through 25 games a season. Who knows, he may have a season like RVP sooner or later.
The issue Sturridge faces is that he has never really truly endeared himself to a lot of our fans. It's different for us youngsters, but the old fellas in the Main Stand find his exuberance and personality quite grating.
He is now in a situation given his past that he needs a run of 10/12 games, rather than a couple, to shut people up. If he comes back and scores three in three, people would say "but he'll be injured for three months now" after. In the same way as Rodgers was a momentum manager, Sturridge is a player who deals with streaks.
The problem is that post-Suarez, we need those streaks to be longer and longer and I'm not sure he can afford us that. In that sense, he'll always be a source of frustration to many in the fanbase and he'll struggle for a sense of belonging.
He is now in a situation given his past that he needs a run of 10/12 games, rather than a couple, to shut people up. If he comes back and scores three in three, people would say "but he'll be injured for three months now" after. In the same way as Rodgers was a momentum manager, Sturridge is a player who deals with streaks.
The problem is that post-Suarez, we need those streaks to be longer and longer and I'm not sure he can afford us that. In that sense, he'll always be a source of frustration to many in the fanbase and he'll struggle for a sense of belonging.
Good point, RVP is a good example of Sturridge, player with immense quality but forever injured. I feel like with RVP Sturridge will never reach his full potential(as in consistently in the top 5 strikers in the world) due to the injuries. I guess he can do a 30 month beast streak like RVP did if fit and Klopp hasn't really replaced him in a tactical sense(Ings/Origi aren't good enough).
Btw, Firmino's a player and a half.
Btw, Firmino's a player and a half.
Original post by Mackay
The issue Sturridge faces is that he has never really truly endeared himself to a lot of our fans. It's different for us youngsters, but the old fellas in the Main Stand find his exuberance and personality quite grating.
He is now in a situation given his past that he needs a run of 10/12 games, rather than a couple, to shut people up. If he comes back and scores three in three, people would say "but he'll be injured for three months now" after. In the same way as Rodgers was a momentum manager, Sturridge is a player who deals with streaks.
The problem is that post-Suarez, we need those streaks to be longer and longer and I'm not sure he can afford us that. In that sense, he'll always be a source of frustration to many in the fanbase and he'll struggle for a sense of belonging.
He is now in a situation given his past that he needs a run of 10/12 games, rather than a couple, to shut people up. If he comes back and scores three in three, people would say "but he'll be injured for three months now" after. In the same way as Rodgers was a momentum manager, Sturridge is a player who deals with streaks.
The problem is that post-Suarez, we need those streaks to be longer and longer and I'm not sure he can afford us that. In that sense, he'll always be a source of frustration to many in the fanbase and he'll struggle for a sense of belonging.
What else was Sturridge meant to do? Imo he's always well spoken and obviously enjoys being at the club. He's always given his all and not kicked up a fuss at any point.
The dance is a little silly but just in good fun - his teammates seem to enjoy it and sometimes join in. When he was match fit, he was constantly a match winner.
Or does he need to go around getting banned and biting people and pushing for moves to Arsenal for the fans to love him? Sturridge's biggest problem is that his best form coincided with Suarez' and therefore his quality and importance was overlooked. Frankly in our title run, Sturridge was just as important as Suarez.
Original post by jam277
Good point, RVP is a good example of Sturridge, player with immense quality but forever injured. I feel like with RVP Sturridge will never reach his full potential(as in consistently in the top 5 strikers in the world) due to the injuries. I guess he can do a 30 month beast streak like RVP did if fit and Klopp hasn't really replaced him in a tactical sense(Ings/Origi aren't good enough).
Btw, Firmino's a player and a half.
Btw, Firmino's a player and a half.
We just need to manage expectation. I think a lot of fans are annoyed at Sturridge because he couldn't be fit when we needed him most. I'd happily take Sturridge as our 3rd choice striker and manage his time. We'll get a brilliant half a season to a season once in a while. Heck we could even manage him by playing him once a week and Benteke the other time in the week.
Do we have the 30-60mil to buy another top quality striker?
Re the Europa League - how does qualification from the group work?
Assuming Rubin Kazan don't beat Sion, is a draw enough for us to qualify from the group? We would be on 7 points, Bordeaux on 4 points and Kazan on 2 or 3 points. We drew 1-1 away from home in the reverse fixture against Bordeaux.
I think if we draw 0-0 then we have qualified but if we draw 1-1 then the final goal difference would come into play if we lose and they won their last game?
Assuming Rubin Kazan don't beat Sion, is a draw enough for us to qualify from the group? We would be on 7 points, Bordeaux on 4 points and Kazan on 2 or 3 points. We drew 1-1 away from home in the reverse fixture against Bordeaux.
I think if we draw 0-0 then we have qualified but if we draw 1-1 then the final goal difference would come into play if we lose and they won their last game?
Original post by Zerforax
Re the Europa League - how does qualification from the group work?
Assuming Rubin Kazan don't beat Sion, is a draw enough for us to qualify from the group? We would be on 7 points, Bordeaux on 4 points and Kazan on 2 or 3 points. We drew 1-1 away from home in the reverse fixture against Bordeaux.
I think if we draw 0-0 then we have qualified but if we draw 1-1 then the final goal difference would come into play if we lose and they won their last game?
Assuming Rubin Kazan don't beat Sion, is a draw enough for us to qualify from the group? We would be on 7 points, Bordeaux on 4 points and Kazan on 2 or 3 points. We drew 1-1 away from home in the reverse fixture against Bordeaux.
I think if we draw 0-0 then we have qualified but if we draw 1-1 then the final goal difference would come into play if we lose and they won their last game?
H2H then GD.
In the case of 3 teams(e.g. Napoli, Dortmund and Arsenal couple seasons back) it will go on an individual basis and will most likely(if H2H are the same) will go down to GD.
Liverpool will win the title under Klopp imho, 2-3 seasons.
Original post by Zerforax
What else was Sturridge meant to do? Imo he's always well spoken and obviously enjoys being at the club. He's always given his all and not kicked up a fuss at any point.
The dance is a little silly but just in good fun - his teammates seem to enjoy it and sometimes join in. When he was match fit, he was constantly a match winner.
Or does he need to go around getting banned and biting people and pushing for moves to Arsenal for the fans to love him? Sturridge's biggest problem is that his best form coincided with Suarez' and therefore his quality and importance was overlooked. Frankly in our title run, Sturridge was just as important as Suarez.
The dance is a little silly but just in good fun - his teammates seem to enjoy it and sometimes join in. When he was match fit, he was constantly a match winner.
Or does he need to go around getting banned and biting people and pushing for moves to Arsenal for the fans to love him? Sturridge's biggest problem is that his best form coincided with Suarez' and therefore his quality and importance was overlooked. Frankly in our title run, Sturridge was just as important as Suarez.
Unsure if it's because of his reputation preceding him. Plenty thought he had a poor work ethic before he came, and those lazy stereotypes often remain in the eyes of an older fan. Similar to the myths of Sakho being poor in possession etc.
Original post by Mackay
Unsure if it's because of his reputation preceding him. Plenty thought he had a poor work ethic before he came, and those lazy stereotypes often remain in the eyes of an older fan. Similar to the myths of Sakho being poor in possession etc.
Well it' a weird one since with Sakho it stemmed from the media and their nonsense. Whereas I don't think the media have ever been on Sturridge's back?
Imo he was entirely justified in leaving Man City and Chelsea when he did.
Original post by Zerforax
Well it' a weird one since with Sakho it stemmed from the media and their nonsense. Whereas I don't think the media have ever been on Sturridge's back?
Imo he was entirely justified in leaving Man City and Chelsea when he did.
Imo he was entirely justified in leaving Man City and Chelsea when he did.
I agree, but rumours of him having a poor application and shoddy attitude have been pretty omnipresent since he left City. Unless I'm mistaken? I definitely remember a lot of fans, when he joined us, saying that he needed to knuckle down and really work hard to prove that he had a good attitude.
Original post by Mackay
I agree, but rumours of him having a poor application and shoddy attitude have been pretty omnipresent since he left City. Unless I'm mistaken? I definitely remember a lot of fans, when he joined us, saying that he needed to knuckle down and really work hard to prove that he had a good attitude.
Yea I remember that, I think a lot of that had to do with him leaving Man City on a free and then moaning at Chelsea since he wasn't getting minutes/being played on the right wing.
I don't think Rodgers made any noise at all about Sturridge's work ethic and he's been here like 3 years almost.
Original post by Zerforax
Yea I remember that, I think a lot of that had to do with him leaving Man City on a free and then moaning at Chelsea since he wasn't getting minutes/being played on the right wing.
I don't think Rodgers made any noise at all about Sturridge's work ethic and he's been here like 3 years almost.
I don't think Rodgers made any noise at all about Sturridge's work ethic and he's been here like 3 years almost.
I think Sturridge has a great personality, but when I've been at the game I've sensed resentment from the older contingent at his perceived selfishness at times.
If we're going to bemoan strikers for being selfish then we may as well stop watching football altogether.
Original post by Mackay
I think Sturridge has a great personality, but when I've been at the game I've sensed resentment from the older contingent at his perceived selfishness at times.
Thought Suarez was just as if not more selfish at times.
But yea I get what you mean.
Original post by Zerforax
Thought Suarez was just as if not more selfish at times.
But yea I get what you mean.
But yea I get what you mean.
Suarez had the benefit of being Suarez, though.
Original post by Zerforax
Thought Suarez was just as if not more selfish at times.
But yea I get what you mean.
But yea I get what you mean.
I dunno though.
Suarez was as selfish as you would expect a striker to be but he would still always see the pass.
The difference between him getting a goal or an assist would be whether he chose to make said pass or not.
Either way we'd score a goal because he was just that bloody good.
Original post by Zerforax
Thought Suarez was just as if not more selfish at times.
But yea I get what you mean.
But yea I get what you mean.
His unselfishness is sort of more profound in Barcelona. I watched some games where it's like all he wants to do is assist Messi.
Original post by Tom.x.Gotze
Liverpool will win the title under Klopp imho, 2-3 seasons.
Is that in the next 2-3 or for the next 2-3 seasons...
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