The idea that the bikini is just as much a form of oppression as the burqa is crap

Am I the only one that got from the original that it is the burqa that is objectifying women? Because wouldn't that be contradictory to state so?

Arguing that it is the burqa which symbolises the woman's body and not the bikini is totally the wrong way round?

Nothing is inherently wrong with choosing to wear the burqa. It may be be seen as a symbol of oppression and against our western ideology but there is no harm in wearing it by choice. I cannot speak for the ladies in middle east but if it is worn by choice I don't get why some of us are trying to brain wash them into believing it is the wrong choice.

My gosh you make a lot of sense, thank you!! , oh and if you have ever been to the middle east, there are quite a few places where women do not wear hijab, but at the same time, i feel ashamed that some women over there are forced into it. It actually goes against islam. Becaus their intention is not right. The quran does say, encourage the good and forbid the evil, but i feel as though people have taken that message in the wrong way.

First of all, women generally wear bikinis when they're at the beach, swimming, or sunbathing. They don't really walk around the streets in them.

Here is a little test that proves that Islamic veils are a form of patriarchal oppression on women, while bikinis aren't: If men didn't exist, would women wear burqas at the beach or when swimming?

Is the burqa practical in the situations where a bikini is generally worn? Because, I reckon that if men didn't exist, women wouldn't be wearing veils on the beach or while swimming. They would be wearing very little, if anything, as clothes are not practical for these activities.

On the other hand, the bikini or any skimpy clothing that women wear certainly doesn't exist to help men keep women as their property. The female form is often very beautiful, and skimpy clothing is a way for women (who are willing and enjoy such attention) to celebrate their beauty. To call this "oppression" is utterly idiotic. It is not showing them as property, and it is not showing them as nothing more than sex objects any more than wearing Adidas clothing is showing you as nothing more than as an advert for Adidas.

For me islam is perfect and there is a certain wisdom behind everything that we are commanded to do and i see that wisdom so i follow the rules. Simple as.

Not necessarily. Women also wear bikinis in adverts, calendars, catwalks, magazines, pageants, photo-shoots and video-shoots, and a host of other situations specifically so that men can see them. It's not just for swimming and sunbathing.

They certainly wouldn't be doing all that if men didn't exist. And often, even "swimming and sunbathing" is just a pretext for it. I'm not sure "girl's holidays" on those island beach resorts in hot weather would be anywhere near as popular if there weren't any men there.

Plus, when bikinis are worn in the situations I mentioned, it's specifically to please and attract men, whereas burqas are worn so as not to be judged by men on appearances.

You seem to be implying that there is something wrong with feelings of attraction or arousal induced by the sight of the female or male form.

You also seem to be implying that there is something wrong with maximising our appearance to attract the opposite (or same) sex.

I don't really know enough about burqas to produced an informed opinion on them, but am curious about some of your statements about bikinis.



Likely not. Would there be occasions if men didn't exist burqa type clothing was worn? Most likely yes, but that's kinda besides your point I guess.



Clearly the burqa isn't practical for swimming at the beach. If men didn't exist would women be wearing bikinis or naked? I very much doubt it. If they had any sense they'd be wearing rash vests and long shorts of a similar material. No point in risking skin cancer for no good reason.



I agree it doesn't help men keep women as their property. I would argue though that some men certainly use such clothing to show off their "property". Just look at the guys you see strolling around the beach with a fake blonde hanging off their arm. I'd bet he often had some say in what she was wearing. He wouldn't be seen with her in a sensible loose fitting shirt and a skirt.

Dan Bilzerian is a prime example of this.

Utter prattle. Of course women would go naked or wear clothes similar to bikinis. Why do you think nudist beaches exist? Because it feels very natural. Girls wouldn't wear rash vests either, because most normal humans haven't spent so long in their parents basements that they are poisoned by sunlight. People enjoy being in the sun. As if you're using utter conjecture about some Z list celebrity as an example to back up your argument. Also, "fake blond", that's a bit bitchy isn't it? Sounds a little like slut-shaming. Typical feminist, pretending to be for womenkind but only really being for women who share your prissy values. Also, please explain how the burqa would have evolved if it wasn't for a patriarchal society, keeping in mind that is exactly what it evolved from.

Is there ever a point where you stop and think "wow, I'm full of sh*t"?

I think that an important distinction needs to be made here which even the muslim community is beginning to forget to make. Hijab is not a headscarf. The headscarf is called a Khamr in arabic. 'Hijab' is a code of modesty, not restricted to, but including dress code (this aspect is called 'jilbaab' in arabic) which applies to both muslim men and muslim women.
http://quran.com/24/31
Evidence here.

By calling the khamr the headscarf, you are aiding in what is effectively the destruction of male hijab as a practiced concept - and when muslims preach female modesty without male modesty, that becomes oppressive.

Not at all; I'm simply refuting the OP's argument going by the criterion that he used in his original post, namely whether it is worn by women for the benefit of men, and whether it would still be worn if men didn't exist.

He pretty much claims that burqas are worn purely for the benefit of men, and that bikinis are worn purely for practical reasons, which is not at all the case.

so you agree that there is nothing wrong with feeling sexually attacted to the human form, and that here is nothing wrong with maximising ones appearance to attract others sexually.

Of course I agree with that. If it weren't for those things, none of us would exist. In and of themselves, they're both perfectly acceptable (though we'd all agree that there are situations in which they're probably inappropriate or inadvisable).

I don't wear the veil, but i do wear loose fit clothing and a headscarf. But i don't wear what i wear just out of modesty. There are multiple reasons behind why i dress how i dress and i don't feel oppressed at all. I willingly do what i do. I am not influenced by western culture but rather my religion. And my religion is my choice. If i thought that the rules or ideas behind islam were wrong, then i simply would nof follow them. I belong to a culture where sadly women are married off really young, and where education is not important for a woman. But just because i belong in that culture that doesn't mean that i will follow the norms of that culture. For me islam is perfect and there is a certain wisdom behind everything that we are commanded to do and i see that wisdom so i follow the rules. Simple as.

Other reasons behind hijab; it is a representation of me. The hijab is a part of me, it gives me strength. People know when i walk past them that i am a muslimah, i am proud of my religion. I want to showcase my religion to the world. The hijab is never going to be a symbol of oppression. It is my choice. A sign of my freedom. I am not a slave to western culture. I am a slave to allah. I feel most free when i can obey my lord freely. And thank allah i am able to do that in this country.

Regarding the bikini, i do see that as a sign of oppression. People over here are almost brainwashed by what they see on media and outside that they believr that ultimate freedom is dressing a specific way. Looking a specific way. No pain no gain and all of that bs. If it were really your genuine choice to dress the way you do, why not wear bikinis and other "skimpy clothing inside the house when youre all alone. Why is it that when you leave the house you have to look a specific way. Youre not dressing up because you like to. Youre dressing up because you want all eyes on you. Why can't you be attractive wearing a comfortable pair of joggers and a tee like you do when you are at home alone. Ill tell you why its because media and the outside world has changed your perception of beautiful and it has done this to you without you even noticing. As cheesy as this sounds. Beauty comes from within. A pure and generous heart, that is beautiful, whats on the outside means nothing.

Regarding doing regular activites in a burqa. I've been going to school for 2 years wearing hijab and not once have i found dificulty in walking around. I think lots of women will agree with me. Im not going to lie, i did wear the headscarf (3 years ago) but i used to wear it with skinny jeans etc. And at the time i didn't reallly see the importance of it. But now i wear full hijab my life hasn't changed much, i can still walk around, go to the shops, i can still enjoy myself whilst wearing hijaab.

Sunbathing- i personally dont need to (because i have darker skin anyways), but even if i did, i could do it in my own backgardern, and outside beauty is not important to a muslim woman anyways, so sunbathing is not really an issue.

Swimming - most swimming pools do offer women only sessions. In which case a muslim woman can go.

so yeh. I disagree with what youve said and my reasoning is written above.
(There are a few grammatical errors and spelling errors, i hope you can forgive me for that, but i am using my tablet and i cant be bithered to go back and fix my mistakes) should be readable though. Hopefully you understand what im trying to say. Woukd be a lot easier if i can say all this in person. Feel free to ask me whatever you wish to ask me!!
Peace