Islamic Tolerance Alert - Brunei Cancel Christmas

Well, that's not very festive, is it?

Islamic Tolerance Alert - Brunei Cancel Christmas

Viva Emptiness

Well, that's not very festive, is it?

Reply 1

Original post by Viva Emptiness

Well, that's not very festive, is it?

Quite.

Hardly getting into the Christmas spirit :biggrin:

Oh wait........

Reply 2

BefuddledPenguin

15

I'm sort of in two minds about this. Isn't it the case that in America you aren't allowed religious iconography on public land, due to the separation of church and state? As long as they do this with every religion I fail to see the issue. In this context however it's very clearly a theocratic regime imposing its religion on the masses, at the expense of people of other faiths. This is an islamist attack on freedom of religion, but this country isn't secular.

Secularism is the best humanity can do, and the fact that secularism is not yet spread across the globe is the cause of so much suffering and misery.

Reply 3

Original post by BefuddledPenguin

Secularism is the best humanity can do, and the fact that secularism is not yet spread across the globe is the cause of so much suffering and misery.

Completely agree with this

Reply 4

So you don't agree that a country could say - we are a country of this faith, and if you want to follow your other religion....move to a country where it has that religion?

Are you trying to say that multiculturalism is the way to go - that everybody can go to whatever country they want and practice whatever religion they want, even if that is not the faith of that country?

Reply 5

Original post by MagicNMedicine

So you don't agree that a country could say - we are a country of this faith, and if you want to follow your other religion....move to a country where it has that religion?

Are you trying to say that multiculturalism is the way to go - that everybody can go to whatever country they want and practice whatever religion they want, even if that is not the faith of that country?

No

and

Yes (as long as it hurts no one)

Tolerance is a two way street (or it is supposed to be but perhaps that's a christian ideal)

Reply 6

Original post by BaconandSauce

No

and

Yes (as long as it hurts no one)

Tolerance is a two way street (or it is supposed to be but perhaps that's a christian ideal)

So do you agree that multiculturalism should be forced on countries even if they don't want it.

What Brunei needs is the gift of multiculturalism imposed on them.

Multicultural societies are more harmonious than monocultural societies.

Reply 7

BefuddledPenguin

15

Original post by MagicNMedicine

So you don't agree that a country could say - we are a country of this faith, and if you want to follow your other religion....move to a country where it has that religion?

Are you trying to say that multiculturalism is the way to go - that everybody can go to whatever country they want and practice whatever religion they want, even if that is not the faith of that country?

That is the basis of secularism, yes. People have the right to practice their faith, as long as they way they practice it doesn't harm others.

But we have to define what religion is. To be religious is to have a personal relationship with god and that's it. This means that you follow your dogma, and you don't impose your interpretation of your faith upon a single other person. This includes your own children. No whittling away of body parts, no forcing others to attend church, no stating that other people cannot claim to be part of your religion because they're gay or have other interpretations.

If everyone kept religion to themselves, and allowed others to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions than the god hypothesis would only be of interest to philosophers and no one else would care. We only discuss religion because it has a huge effect on peoples lives, and often that effect is a fatal one.

Reply 8

kka25

18

No present for him then.

Reply 9

Original post by BefuddledPenguin

To be religious is to have a personal relationship with god and that's it. This means that you follow your dogma, and you don't impose your interpretation of your faith upon a single other person. This includes your own children. No whittling away of body parts, no forcing others to attend church, no stating that other people cannot claim to be part of your religion because they're gay or have other interpretations.

So is it time to ban people taking their children to Christian festivals like Christmas carol services and others.

Should children be prohibited from being exposed to Christmas, because they are not old enough to exercise free choice on whether they want to follow Christianity or another religion like Islam?

Reply 10

Original post by MagicNMedicine

So do you agree that multiculturalism should be forced on countries even if they don't want it.

What Brunei needs is the gift of multiculturalism imposed on them.

Multicultural societies are more harmonious than monocultural societies.

As it now seem to be the norm in the west then yes other countries must go this way as well it's a global word and all that bollox but as Christians are already a part of the society it is already 'Multicultural'

Yes it does or it need sanctions until it stop behaving this way

No they are not but I can see no way to reverse the damage done to the west without stooping to treating muslims (this is who we are talking about after all) as bad as they treat minorities in muslim majority countries

and we are better than that.

Reply 11

Original post by BaconandSauce

As it now seem to be the norm in the west then yes other countries must go this way as well it's a global word and all that bollox but as Christians are already a part of the society it is already 'Multicultural'

Yes it does or it need sanctions until it stop behaving this way

Yes I would support international pressure like this for any country that denies the rights to religious freedom or denies rights for women or gay people. No doubt some on here would complain that this was "cultural marxism" but the world would be a better place if we imposed values of equality on backward states.

Reply 12

BefuddledPenguin

15

Original post by MagicNMedicine

So is it time to ban people taking their children to Christian festivals like Christmas carol services and others.

Should children be prohibited from being exposed to Christmas, because they are not old enough to exercise free choice on whether they want to follow Christianity or another religion like Islam?

Well there is a strong case that xmas has become a secular, capitalist celebration of generosity and family togetherness, there are countries that celebrate xmas without any christian connotations, such as Japan for example. As far as carol services go that doesn't leave a permanent mark on the child, so if they choose to attend a carol service that's fine, after all the anglican church is effectively secular, Rowen Williams (the former archbishop) once called himself agnostic.

Xmas is a national holiday that no longer requires christian influence. After all christians stole the celebration from the pagans, it is known that the historical figure of jesus was not born December 25th, but Yule was celebrated on that day so they randomly attached christian iconography to it.

It doesn't take much to turn a plagiarised pseudo-christian celebration like xmas into a secular celebration of love, togetherness and generosity. These are human values that do not require a christian dimension.

Reply 13

Captain Haddock

18

The Sultan of Brunei just got crossed off my Christmas card list.

Reply 14

kka25

18

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

In more important news

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/nestle-responds-to-shrinking-quality-street-tin-sizes-after-backlash-from-outraged-customers-a6776536.html

I want my original tin!

Reply 15

Bill_Gates

21

More Christmas pud for me

Reply 16

skunkboy

11

Lol. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. No problems.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 17

Original post by skunkboy

Lol. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. No problems.

Posted from TSR Mobile

This isn't Rome and the Christians are already there.

Reply 18

HucktheForde