How highly does Ronaldinho rank amongst the great Brazilians?

Original post by atom y humber

Ronny is biggest myth going. Tier below zico and the philosopher.

Lol at people not giving neymar props. If balon d'or is legit, it should be a close run between him and messi.

Socrates would have fitted right into the modern game today, he was ahead of his time. I think the Arsenal team must watch his videos and idolize him.

Reply 22

IamJacksContempt

16

Only the likes of Messi, Maradona, Pele, ronaldo, ruyff etc should be tier 1.

Tier 2 would consist of C. Ronaldo, iniesta, Henry, Ronaldinho etc

Reply 23

Original post by IamJacksContempt

Only the likes of Messi, Maradona, Pele, ronaldo, ruyff etc should be tier 1.

Tier 2 would consist of C. Ronaldo, iniesta, Henry, Ronaldinho etc

Wrong

Reply 24

IamJacksContempt

16

Original post by Manchester United

Wrong

You think Iniesta should be in tier 1? I was conflicted about that one I must admit.

Reply 25

Original post by IamJacksContempt

You think Iniesta should be in tier 1? I was conflicted about that one I must admit.

Take off your Barcelona tinted spectacles. Messi and Ronaldo are the two greatest, by quite some distance. They can do everything, they rack up the most assists, they score more goals than anybody in the history of football and they do it on the biggest of stages (Champions League).

Iniesta belongs in a class with Ronaldinho, Laudrup, Cruyff, Zidane etc. Pele belongs in a separate class with Di Stefano, Puskas, Garrincha, Eusebio etc because they're players none of us have witnessed. You can't try and compare footballers from the 60's to footballers today. The game has changed massively.

GOAT

Original post by Manchester United

Take off your Barcelona tinted spectacles. Messi and Ronaldo are the two greatest, by quite some distance. They can do everything, they rack up the most assists, they score more goals than anybody in the history of football and they do it on the biggest of stages (Champions League).

Iniesta belongs in a class with Ronaldinho, Laudrup, Cruyff, Zidane etc. Pele belongs in a separate class with Di Stefano, Puskas, Garrincha, Eusebio etc because they're players none of us have witnessed. You can't try and compare footballers from the 60's to footballers today. The game has changed massively.

Messi, being simultaneously the best playmaker and the best attacker in the world can do pretty much everything. Ronaldo.... not so much anymore. Ronaldo hasn't won enough to be one of the all time greats. Sorry but it's true.

I really don't know how people can claim assists + goal stats = best ever. There's much more to it than that. Otherwise there would be no contest in regards to who's the greatest ever because Pele would always win. I, along with many others believe it is those who drag their teams to victory such as Messi and Maradona who are truly the greatest.

Also, Neymar is easily going to surpass Ronaldo's assists + goals. Do you agree that he'll be regarded as one of the greatest to play the game? Above Ronaldo?

Reply 28

Original post by IamJacksContempt

Messi, being simultaneously the best playmaker and the best attacker in the world can do pretty much everything. Ronaldo.... not so much anymore. Ronaldo hasn't won enough to be one of the all time greats. Sorry but it's true.

I really don't know how people can claim assists + goal stats = best ever. There's much more to it than that. Otherwise there would be no contest in regards to who's the greatest ever because Pele would always win. I, along with many others believe it is those who drag their teams to victory such as Messi and Maradona who are truly the greatest.

Also, Neymar is easily going to surpass Ronaldo's assists + goals. Do you agree that he'll be regarded as one of the greatest to play the game? Above Ronaldo?

Our definition of best differs. I don't define a player by what medals they've won. I define them by their contribution to the team and their individual ability. It's not Ronaldo's fault that Real Madrid have a **** defence and his national team are far inferior to the likes of Germany, Spain, Argentina and Brazil. That's why I insist that Messi doesn't have to win a World Cup to be considered the greatest, it's obvious from watching him - in the same way it is with Ronaldo. Maradona never won the European Cup, but it doesn't matter because we know that he's one of the greatest just from watching him.

Also to say Ronaldo hasn't won enough is laughable, he has won two Champions League's in the same era as the greatest club side I've ever watched. I'm astonished they actually managed to win the league in a time when Barcelona were so dominant.

Neymar will not surpass Ronaldo, as Ronaldo will probably continue for another 4 years. That said, Neymar will retire in the bracket of Henry, Brazilian Ronaldo etc.

Your logic appears to consist of a large amount of;

Barcelona > Madrid therefore [Key Barca Player] > [Key Madrid Player]

Edit: And if it is that, that's fine. We're allowed to have different definitions of best or greatest.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 29

doobucks

16

Don't put Henry and Brazillian Ronaldo in the same sentence.

Luis Ronaldo in his prime was the best striker in history and I genuinely think Henry=Suarez.

Reply 30

Tom.x.Gotze

OP

Original post by jam277

Don't put Henry and Brazillian Ronaldo in the same sentence.

Luis Ronaldo in his prime was the best striker in history and I genuinely think Henry=Suarez.

Pretty much agree with everything you just said. Fat Ronaldo was supernatural in his prime.

Reply 31

Original post by jam277

Don't put Henry and Brazillian Ronaldo in the same sentence.

Luis Ronaldo in his prime was the best striker in history and I genuinely think Henry=Suarez.

Are we talking about primes or are we talking about the entirety of their career? Ronaldinho was at prime for a short period of time, as was Kaka. As for comparing their entire career it's not wrong at all to put Henry in the same group as Brazilian Ronaldo. We should reward consistency, that's what makes Ronaldo and Messi so phenomenal, the fact that they maintain these ridiculous goalscoring averages and performances over almost eight years.

Tier 1 is just Messi

Original post by Kenan and Kel

Pele is Tier 1. Garrincha and Ronaldo are Tier 2. Ronaldinho is probably Tier 3 with a whole bunch of other guys.

Ronaldo is tier 2 on sentimentality. His peak was incredible but short.

Reply 34

Pimped Butterfly

Original post by jam277

Don't put Henry and Brazillian Ronaldo in the same sentence.

Luis Ronaldo in his prime was the best striker in history and I genuinely think Henry=Suarez.

Best striker in history is absolute nonsense.

Suarez outstrips Henry, he's more in conversation with the likes of Batistuta and Fenomeno.

Reply 35

MagicNMedicine

20

Original post by IamJacksContempt

Messi, being simultaneously the best playmaker and the best attacker in the world can do pretty much everything. Ronaldo.... not so much anymore. Ronaldo hasn't won enough to be one of the all time greats. Sorry but it's true.

I really don't know how people can claim assists + goal stats = best ever. There's much more to it than that. Otherwise there would be no contest in regards to who's the greatest ever because Pele would always win. I, along with many others believe it is those who drag their teams to victory such as Messi and Maradona who are truly the greatest.

I agree with your argument here that you can't just argue based on assist and goal stats, but I also think there's more to it than saying you need to win X amount of trophies. A lot of players won more trophies than Maradona.

I think Messi and Maradona are different types of player. There are great footballers who can work within great teams, and there are great individual players who work as the dominant player in a team. Messi and Maradona are probably the leading players in each category.

When Maradona played, the equivalents to Messi were guys that played in the great AC Milan side of Ariggo Sacchi, eg Van Basten and Gullit. In Messi's era, the equivalents to Maradona were Ronaldinho, Cristiano Ronaldo. I don't think those two would have worked in the Guardiola Barca side as well as Messi but I also don't think Messi would have worked as well as CR7 in Madrid.

Maradona dragged an average to good Argentina team to the World Cup in 1986 and incredibly managed to take Napoli from mediocrity to win two Serie A titles at the time when Sacchi's great Milan team were around. It's the equivalent of a player turning Espanyol in to a team that could take titles off modern Barca. Messi hasn't really dragged a team to win trophies, he's been a great player playing in a great team.

Reply 36

Pimped Butterfly

Original post by Tom.x.Gotze

Offtopic but I think Suarez is a better player than Neymar will ever be. He is still within that second tier obv. Along with Henry I think he is the best striker the premier league has had. Ronaldo peaked later when he joined Real.

I'm the biggest Suarez fan in the world. He's pretty much the reason I started playing football properly again and he's my favourite player ever.

Neymar is already comparable to him, and he isn't 24 yet. The only thing that's putting Suarez ahead of Neymar currenty is Neymar's role in the team; subservient to Messi. If Neymar was given FULL creative reign then I have faith that he'd be considered significantly better than Suarez. Most Barca fans already think Neymar > Suarez, and they see Suarez as the best striker they've ever had, including R9. That shows you the standing that Neymar is in.

You can't argue with Neymar's credentials. His international scoring record is as good as it gets, he scored 39 from a wide forward position last year (and only one penalty) and he dragged the worst Brazilian team in history to the semis, being their only creative and goalscoring player simultaneously. This season, when Messi was injured, he took full charge of the situation and absolutely destroyed the league. Last year it was a similar scenario, as Messi started the season slowly and Neymar took goalscoring duties upon himself.

In recent times his dribbling ability can only be matched by Messi himself. His shooting is already comparable to Cristiano and Messi, just they have more freedom in shooting, and this is backed up by the stats. His creative play is magnificent even if he is, at heart, a direct individualist.

He's ticked all the boxes. He's incredibly prolific, a big game player, done it in a variety of environments and he's carried a team. He's not even 24 yet. In Neymar, Barca have the next great player in football history.

If Neymar retired today, he'd be known as an all time great. He's still got at least 3 years till his peak, and I fully believe that he'll put up regular 40 and 50 goal seasons once Messi moves deeper and Neymar becomes the attacking focal point.

Reply 37

Pimped Butterfly