The Spanish Football Thread

41-27 is too close tbh

Reply 9002

difeo

18

Original post by Malevolent

Joke that Modric got in but probably making up for last years snub, then Ramos is just lol, Alaba easily over Marcelo and Busquets over Pogba but well still doesn't get the recognition he deserves...

Your Barca bias is showing

Reply 9003

Malevolent

19

Original post by difeo

Your Barca bias is showing

instead of trying to WUM me why don't you actually try debate my points or would that be too difficult for you?

Reply 9004

difeo

18

Original post by Malevolent

instead of trying to WUM me why don't you actually try debate my points or would that be too difficult for you?

I'm afraid I don't watch enough of Bayern, Barca, Real Madrid and Juventus to do that and I doubt you do either

Reply 9005

Malevolent

19

Original post by difeo

I'm afraid I don't watch enough of Bayern, Barca, Real Madrid and Juventus to do that and I doubt you do either

Well I do watch plenty enough of those teams. I watch all of Barcelona's games and Madrids as well as Bayern. Juventus yes I don't watch as often but theres no way in hell that Pogba deserved that over Busquets.

Reply 9006

Major Zero

10

I pose a question to the more knowledgable posters in the FF; what more can the EPL do to compete with the likes of the elite La Liga teams, other than money (of which EPL has in abundance anyway with the new TV deal)?

Reply 9007

_Dreamville_

16

Original post by Major Zero

I pose a question to the more knowledgable posters in the FF; what more can the EPL do to compete with the likes of the elite La Liga teams, other than money (of which EPL has in abundance anyway with the new TV deal)?

It's all a matter of how much they'll actually invest in the long term. If they gave more attention to building/improving academies and having better/more scouts to find a wider variety of very young players, in the long term it would benefit the BPL and English football as a whole. Spain has a much more focused culture of football at a more grassroots level. They teach young players to play football on the ground and they can do this because the pitches are much better and there are more of them. Too many great young players don't progress simply because they get no attention and/or the quality of facilities available to them isn't good enough. Young kids here get taught to smack the ball up to the other end and let the striker chase after it. This mentality doesn't help future generations and English footballers won't ever reach the heights that the Spanish and Brazilians have in the past.

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Reply 9008

Zayn Malik

Original post by Malevolent

Well I do watch plenty enough of those teams. I watch all of Barcelona's games and Madrids as well as Bayern. Juventus yes I don't watch as often but theres no way in hell that Pogba deserved that over Busquets.

Who has more potential; Saul or André Gomes?

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Reply 9009

No worse time for Real Betis to be travelling to Villarreal than right now, in truth. They made the correct decision in sacking Pepe Mel, but Villarreal have only lost once at El Madrigal all season and are unbeaten since November after six straight wins.

Reply 9010

Manchester United

18

Original post by Major Zero

I pose a question to the more knowledgable posters in the FF; what more can the EPL do to compete with the likes of the elite La Liga teams, other than money (of which EPL has in abundance anyway with the new TV deal)?

First of all, we need to wait for Messi and Ronaldo to retire/age. In 3 or 4 years Barca and Real will be significantly weaker. There's no chance the next wave of Barcelona youth products will be as good as the current crop.

In contrast to Dreamville, I don't think we have to worry about the grassroots level too much, we've produced plenty of world-class players throughout recent times; Terry, Cole, Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Rooney etc. It was only 5-10 years ago that English clubs were the best in Europe, particularly Chelsea and ourselves.

The intensity of the Premiership far outweighs the other leagues so there is an argument that PL players are tired for European fixtures. I also think PL clubs should focus on signing non South-American/Spanish players. Most of them dream of Barcelona/Real so it's difficult to keep them when they become world XI level.

United are certainly building for the future, and City will continue to be a powerhouse, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Manchester duo dominate Europe in 5-10 years time.

Reply 9011

Zerforax

21

Original post by Major Zero

I pose a question to the more knowledgable posters in the FF; what more can the EPL do to compete with the likes of the elite La Liga teams, other than money (of which EPL has in abundance anyway with the new TV deal)?

Make England more sunny. Make Manchester more attractive.

Start paying recording breaking world transfer fees for the highest rated players.

Win more Champions League trophies.

Reply 9012

Original post by Manchester United

First of all, we need to wait for Messi and Ronaldo to retire/age. In 3 or 4 years Barca and Real will be significantly weaker. There's no chance the next wave of Barcelona youth products will be as good as the current crop.

Agreed. When Messi and Ronaldo go, there is nobody really there to grab their mantle bar Neymar. I don't just mean La Liga, either. I mean the entire world. We've been lucky enough to be graced with two of the best footballers of all-time, whose careers have mirrored each others and correlated throughout the past decade. We'll go back to a case like in the early-00s, where Zidane was probably the best but there was no global icon.

Original post by Manchester United

The intensity of the Premiership far outweighs the other leagues so there is an argument that PL players are tired for European fixtures. I also think PL clubs should focus on signing non South-American/Spanish players. Most of them dream of Barcelona/Real so it's difficult to keep them when they become world XI level.

The PL is certainly football, football, football. It's intense - but that's why people love it. We mustn't lose that heritage or culture, though we should become more pragmatic. A winter break is a must - but preferably after the festive period, so we can still enjoy Boxing Day football etc.

Reply 9013

Pimped Butterfly

Barca's academy hasn't produced in a wave though. Off the top of my head, Puyol is 3 years older than Xavi, Xavi is 3-4 years older than Iniesta, who's 3 years older than MessI, Pique and Cesc, who are 2 years older than Busquets and Pedro, who are 3 years older than Thiago (who's 25?). There's a longer wait from Thiago to the next off the production line, but that all depends on how Bellerin, Deulofeu, Munir, Rafinha develop.

That's a legacy stretching from the 90s well into the 10s, and it definitely won't stop given their joint monopoly (with Madrid) on the best Spanish youth talent, and solid youth scouting networks in South America.

And this is relevant because the best Latin American youths are better than their English counterparts. Liverpool, Chelsea, City all have academies that are similarly run to their Iberian counterparts, with obscene amounts of investment, usually taking Barcelona coaches while they're at it. It's the baseline quality of players. What is required is changes in grassroots. For sure. The extent of which can be elaborated on forever.

To go back to the question asked, the best teams are made of the best managers and the best players. To get the best players, you either need to recruit them, or grow your own (discussed above). To recruit the best players, your two main factors are money and appeal. British clubs are not better or worse than Barca or Madrid for money, though they can look at poaching from Atletico. Which means it comes down to appeal.

Appeal is made up of many things (location, language, family, most of which can be offset by money) but the two main factors are the manager/project, and the historical/cultural appeal of the club. In England, we've made a good start on the manager side by bringing in Klopp, Pep, Jose till recently and Wenger's reputation has been revived somewhat. But to Iberian and South American players, even Manchester United and Liverpool will never hold a candle to Madrid or Barca in cultural appeal.

Spoiler

If you're a young Brazilian, do you go to Barcelona and walk in the shoes of Rivaldo, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho, or Manchester United and Kleberson? This is just a snapshot and it doesn't wholly cover the cultural differences, and standing of clubs, from England to Spain. But that is a longstanding and in the short term, irreversible appeal for Iberian and South American players, and even all players around the world. As seen by Cristiano, Bale and Suarez (the three highest peaking players in the last decade of the PL) leaving for M&B.

To most English or British kids, United, Liverpool, and Arsenal are the pinnacle, with City and Chelsea joining recently. Generally British players don't seek to move elsewhere within the nation or abroad if they've met the criteria. With the recent cash injection to the British game allowing us to complete with M&B, British players are likely to stay within the nation.

The problem is obviously that right now they're not good enough to make us competitive. But if things are changed at grassroots levels, then we should be able to, in a decade's time, produce the players we need to compete.

In summary, our options are: get better managers (which we're doing) to get better players, and produce better players, which we're not really doing.

Reply 9014

doobucks

16

Ashley Cole would be considered a true star, as would Nemanja Vidic? Maybe not as many top quality attackers as the spanish league, but then the premier leagues history never has been based on that. It's mainly been based on counter attacking teams and solid defences. United and Chelsea over the years have had a lot of success being very solid defensively and springing teams on the counter. Liverpool have had varying levels of success, but they were known as being quite good defensively in europe too.

You also have the issue that the prem involves a lot more fairness in the actual league in terms of money distribution so it is harder for a team to dominate like Barcelona, Madrid have done and Bayern as well.

Plus anyway there was a point where the top English teams were better than the likes of Barcelona and the Madrid teams. It's a cycle. You had the Italians dominant in the 90s and early 2000s, you then had us in the mid 2000s, now you have the 3 spanish clubs doing very well in europe.

Football works in cycles man. You can see Serie A is starting to revive itself after the problems of the calciopoli scandal e.g. and the premier league. You then also include tactics and styles of play evolving from various leagues and the teams from other leagues trying to copy that style. Matter of fact is that the players are not good enough and tactically the managers are getting outdone.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 9015

Football is indeed cyclical. Aside from the Serie A domination Jam mentions, once upon a time Holland were the greatest footballing nation on Earth. Brazil have always been there or thereabouts, and then came France, then Spain, and now Germany.

It's like music - trends come and go. The best solution is to recruit the best managers and players, for sure. During the period of English dominance in the CL - between 2005 and 2011 - we had an array of great talent in the dugout.

Ferguson is arguably the best manager who ever lived, Chelsea boasted Mourinho and then Hiddink and then Ancelotti, Liverpool had a Benitez whose philosophy and pragmatism was in its prime.

Next year - with Guardiola, Klopp, Wenger and whichever marquee name inevitably manages Chelsea - will be blockbuster. The only chink in the armour would be Giggs taking the helm at Old Trafford, as he's unproven, but at least he's bound to play more exciting football.

Reply 9016

Zayn Malik

Location is the single most important factor when choosing between big clubs aside from money. As a foreigner (theoretically), I'd 100% join a London club over a Manchester one if wages were the same.

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Reply 9017