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London Jewish school ordered to be shut down

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Original post by Good bloke
Eh? Did you read what you quoted?


Edited before you replied. I quoted the wrong post first then edited to quote your reply to me. Thats what I'm replying to.
Original post by hussamhussam
Absolutely not. But that's how the xenophobic government will want to portray them and use this school as precedent and hype for shutting them down. Just watch and see.


Nonsense! the government needs no precedent (as this case shows). Illegal, unregistered schools, particularly those that teach badly, must be closed down, no matter who runs them.
Original post by hussamhussam
Don't be stupid thats not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that they will mask the closings of legitimate legal Madrasas with a move like this.


Then the sentence structure is terrible and you should try again

If they are up for closure they can't be legitimate legal Madrasas now can they

Look we have laws in this country that allow for children to be educated to a certain standard and be exposed to certain ideas. Fall foul of these and I see no reason why we should balk at closing places down
(edited 8 years ago)
Reply 23
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Ravenous
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17
According to the DfE’s 2012 briefing note, there are 800-1,000 Orthodox Jewish boys between the ages of 13 and 16 missing from the school system in the London borough of Hackney. And while this is the UK’s biggest Hassidic community, it is likely that similar situations exist in other areas where smaller groups live, including Salford and Gateshead.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/aug/11/orthodox-jewish-religious-schools-unregulated-london-yeshiva
Reply 24
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Ascend
13
Original post by hussamhussam
Absolutely not. But that's how the xenophobic government will want to portray them and use this school as precedent and hype for shutting them down. Just watch and see.


Already playing the victim in your own fantasies now?

The "precedent" was set when Ofsted decided to investigate illegal schools last year, including Islamic ones.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35070984

You didn't need to conjure up conspiracy theories because of this recent news, you could have come up with that fantasy when they initially set up the taskforce.
Kids should be taught how to think, not what to think.
I live near this area. It is a heavily, very Orthodox Jewish community, and most of the schools in Stamford Hill are Jewish schools. I don't see anything wrong with faith schools; these children will be taught the same religious teachings at home and throughout their community regardless. Most of their friends will be Jewish. Most of their fathers are employed in religious positions.
Going to a secular school would of course give them more opportunity to mix with children of other faiths and backgrounds, but this is North East London! There are literally people from every background here! No one looks twice at a hijab or a shtreimel. It's very hard to teach intolerance to children who, daily, see every creed and colour under the sun.

That said - of course operating an illegal school and refusing to teach any English is extreme. But that doesn't mean all faith schools are evil.
Original post by hussamhussam
Very convenient that now they're starting to shut them down when we have an Islamophobic government who are making this move so down the line when they start shutting down Islamic centres they will say "oh look but we shut down a Jewish school as well!".

1 Jewish school shut so 100s of Muslim ones can follow.


When they shut down a Muslim school: "das Islamiphobic! Why they not shutting down Jew schools?"

When they shut down a Jewish school: "that's proof of islamiphobia! They only doing it so they can shut down Muslim schools!"

You're a deluded idiot with a victimhood complex.
Original post by KimKallstrom
When they shut down a Muslim school: "das Islamiphobic! Why they not shutting down Jew schools?"

When they shut down a Jewish school: "that's proof of islamiphobia! They only doing it so they can shut down Muslim schools!"

You're a deluded idiot with a victimhood complex.


I agree with you. That's strange.

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Original post by simon_g
bloody religionists, they should be put in mental hospitals.


This you, bro?

image.jpg
Yeshivas are a big problem in Stamford Hill and another symptom of the Hasidic community's insularity.

I'm completely against faith schools anyway - it's not that they are 'evil' but it's a further strain on a child's ability to make rational choices.
Original post by rockrunride
Yeshivas are a big problem in Stamford Hill and another symptom of the Hasidic community's insularity.

I'm completely against faith schools anyway - it's not that they are 'evil' but it's a further strain on a child's ability to make rational choices.


Haredi Judaism demands this rejection of the modern/secular. These children would have little 'choice' regardless, if they wanted to remain part of their community/family.

Though I understand that all children ideally would have an entirely unbiased education, and do with it what they wished, it is up to individual families to decide how they want their children to be educated - be that religiously or not.
Original post by ChancedTravels
Haredi Judaism demands this rejection of the modern/secular. These children would have little 'choice' regardless, if they wanted to remain part of their community/family.

Though I understand that all children ideally would have an entirely unbiased education, and do with it what they wished, it is up to individual families to decide how they want their children to be educated - be that religiously or not.


I do not think that this is a concept the secular British community can accept as the reality. I apologise for engaging in whataboutery, but we ought to question this as much as we question the practices of Islam that affect child welfare.

I say this as someone quite curious about all aspects of Jewish culture (I also live in North London!).
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by rockrunride
I do not think that this is a concept the secular British community can accept as the reality. I apologise for engaging in whataboutery, but we ought to question this as much as we question the practices of Islam that affect child welfare.


I agree - I just don't know that there is a way of doing so sensitively, and without disrupting a rich cultural history and belief system. It can be very difficult as someone who has no strong religious convictions (I speak for myself, I don't know about you), to really understand what can and can't realistically be challenged to positive result. It's a tricky one...
Original post by ChancedTravels
It's very hard to teach intolerance to children who, daily, see every creed and colour under the sun.


You sure about that? A certain Mohammed Emwazi begs to differ.
Original post by Hydeman
You sure about that? A certain Mohammed Emwazi begs to differ.


For the vast, vast, vast majority, this is not the case.
Religious segregation of all kinds is dangerous. Wish we could abolish faith schools altogether.

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Original post by rockrunride
Yeshivas are a big problem in Stamford Hill and another symptom of the Hasidic community's insularity.

I'm completely against faith schools anyway - it's not that they are 'evil' but it's a further strain on a child's ability to make rational choices.




So long as they don't commit acts of terror or try to force Judaic law on other people, I really don't see why Hasidic Jews should be forced to partake in secular Western life.


Being religious isn't actually the problem, the problem is with certain religious people thinking it's ok to wage a religious war on the West, something Jewish people don't do.
Original post by Hydeman
You sure about that? A certain Mohammed Emwazi begs to differ.


Agreed. The best way to teach tolerance is to expose children to all different cultures and people when they are young rather than segregating themselves off into their own religious groups so that they only mix with their own kind.


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Original post by SonOfTheGun
So long as they don't commit acts of terror or try to force Judaic law on other people, I really don't see why Hasidic Jews should be forced to partake in secular Western life.


This should be a choice

this is clearly not the case here

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