"We need to talk about anonymity for rape suspects."

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Personally I'm in favour of complete anonymity for rape suspects, but the argument in favour of publication of names is to encourage other victims to come forward, which may help establish a case in the event of guilt.

Regarding @the bear's point, it strikes me that penalties should be levied, but only where a criminal standard of evidence (i.e. beyond reasonable doubt that a) the accused was not raped; b) the accused claimed to have been raped; and c) the accused knew they had not been raped) is met - and this will not be at all easy.

Reply 21

llys

It's the Internet which causes this problem, and it hasn't been around that long. I'm pretty confident the law will catch up. In the meantime, he will have to change his name - at least that's pretty easy to do in England.

Reply 22

Jebedee

Original post by abruiseonthesky

That's not what I'm saying. That's a given. What I'm asking is, how do you know/prove an accusation's fake?

Feminists, when confronted with any kind of data on false rape accusations, often brush off the "small percentage of men falsely accused" as expendable casualties in the pursuit of justice. So if a small percentage of error is acceptable then why don't we use lie detectors which are 98% accurate? Sure, 1 in 50 will go wrong but they already said it was ok so....

Reply 23

IFoundWonderland

I agree.

One of the reasons (amongst many others) I didn't want to report it when it happened to me was that I didn't want to ruin someone's life. I expect I will likely get a lot of stick for this. However, I don't think that someone should have the label of "rapist" following them for the rest of their lives for something they did when absolutely smashed to a girl who they'd spent the past hour kissing/talking to.

I imagine it is a million times worse when you haven't even committed the crime.

Got to agree.

Original post by Jebedee

False accusations are clearly awful. There is next to no evidence for widespread false accusations though and a CPS report in around 2012 concluded that they were very rare.

If you're arguing that they are widespread you must provide some proof or evidence to suggest they are.

Reply 26

Jebedee

Original post by Bornblue

I'm arguing that it is very possible that they are widespread and that evidence pertaining to the contrary can be somewhat....doubtful.

I'm not taking that burden of proof sorry.

Reply 27

username878267

Original post by Jebedee

I'm arguing that it is very possible that they are widespread and that evidence pertaining to the contrary can be somewhat....doubtful.

I'm not taking that burden of proof sorry.

There was an official investigation into it by the CPS who found no evidence whatsoever of widespread false allegations. Yet on the back of no evidence at all, you think you know better.

If you are asserting that there are vast numbers of false allegations then let's see your evidence. You have to back up your claim.

If you are arguing that they are widespread, the onus is on you to prove it. So go on, the floor is yours.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 28

Jebedee

Original post by Bornblue

Source that evidence please and drop the strawman, I never made any assertions.

Reply 29

rachel x

Original post by Jebedee

This is a very good point, and while I do identify as a feminist I do so loosely (as this is one of many, many problems within the movement). The statistics of false rape accusations, even in feminist posts/articles/infographics, have always bothered me; while a majority of rape accusations are legitimate, there's something like 3% (if I'm remembering this correctly - I may be wrong, so don't quote me on it) which are false.

However this isn't a problem unique to rape allegations - innocent people are tried and even convicted of almost every crime. This is a problem with the justice system as a whole.

While I do believe that steps should be taken to minimise false accusations for any crime, I don't believe making these accusations a crime is the way to go - this will only cause even more people not to report crime, which is already a huge problem re: rape victims, especially male ones.

As far as the issue of anonymity goes, I believe that alleged rapists should be allowed the same level of anonymity as other people accused of violent crimes against a person/persons (e.g. murder, attempted murder, abuse/violence etc.)

Reply 30

Jebedee

Original post by rachel x

While I do believe that steps should be taken to minimise false accusations for any crime, I don't believe making these accusations a crime is the way to go - this will only cause even more people not to report crime, which is already a huge problem re: rape victims, especially male ones.

But they have nothing to fear if they're telling the truth.

Reply 31

rachel x

Original post by Jebedee

But they have nothing to fear if they're telling the truth.

The justice system isn't perfect - as I said above, innocent people get tried and convicted far too much. That would also apply to this scenario.

Rape victims don't need anything else to worry about when reporting the crime. They already have too much (ie people not believing them, it turning into a he-said/she-said thing, that they'll get asked questions like "what were your wearing?" and essentially blamed for their own rape, ridicule - especially for male victims... the list goes on).

Reply 32

Joep95

Original post by Bornblue

The problem with false allegations is unfortunately the same as proving actual allegations to be true, the bar has to be high but unfortunately it is extremely difficult to prove it.

I don't have any proof but personally I don't have any doubt that both actually occur more often than is proven.

Reply 33

Jebedee

Original post by rachel x

No because we would apply due process (as should always be). False accusers get caught via video evidence and the such and would only result in a conviction if it was a blatant lie.
No one would be punished for not being able to prove a rape did happen.

Reply 34

a noble chance

Original post by Nununu

Not guilty =/= innocent.

As far as I know we still operate on the presumption of innocence in this country

Reply 35

username1723547

Original post by a noble chance

As far as I know we still operate on the presumption of innocence in this country

We do. If you're found not guilty of a crime in a way that isn't, for example, insanity (i.e. not guilty by reason of insanity, where you've still committed the crime but have used that defence), you're innocent.

Reply 36

Nununu

Original post by a noble chance

As far as I know we still operate on the presumption of innocence in this country

Not guilty could meab there was reasonable doubt.

Reply 37

rachel x

Original post by Jebedee

That is a good point, but the stress of an accusation and trial should still be considered whether they are found guilty or not. I personally don't believe it's a good idea, because of the amount of other things there are for these people to worry about - the chance they could be criminally charged for a false accusation, not just non-criminally accused (the claim that a rape accusation is false is far more common than a true false accusation), is just another thing to add. I do see where you're coming from though.

Original post by a noble chance

As far as I know we still operate on the presumption of innocence in this country

This applies to "false accusers" as well. If an accused rapist is found not guilty, it doesn't mean the accusation was false. It means that you couldn't prove it was true.