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Cameron to say face veils need to be removed for officials

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Reply 160
Original post by Katty3
Why? Faith schools are perfectly acceptable. They can have advantages.

I was at a religious primary school and I found that perfectly fine. It meant that I had to sing hymns.

I was not disadvantaged in any way by attending a faith school.

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It's quite literally indoctrination. How can you in ANY WAY justify teaching false truths to kids who aren't even yet old enough to think or act fully autonomously?

Source: Attended a Catholic nursery, primary school and middle school.
Original post by BaconandSauce
So no motor bike helmets then or Jewish Kippah's

Or Hats or hoodies

You've really not though this through have you.


The difference is people with hoodies or hats on remove them when asked. Same can't be said for veils.
Islamophobia is a social construct, manufactured by the media.

And we all know what ethno-religious group runs the media.
Original post by Lawliettt
The difference is people with hoodies or hats on remove them when asked. Same can't be said for veils.


It was in response to 'ban all head coverings'
Original post by Kiytt
It's quite literally indoctrination. How can you in ANY WAY justify teaching false truths to kids who aren't even yet old enough to think or act fully autonomously?

Source: Attended a Catholic nursery, primary school and middle school.


Except it isn't indoctrination. My school had a Christian ethos and it was very mixed. It had a lot of Christian children, yes, but also Muslim children and children who had no faith at all.

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Reply 165
Original post by Katty3
Except it isn't indoctrination. My school had a Christian ethos and it was very mixed. It had a lot of Christian children, yes, but also Muslim children and children who had no faith at all.

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You're being spoonfed the belief that a God exists as if it were fact, before you even possess an ounce of scientific knowledge, or the ability to come to your own conclusions from your own judgements. It is indoctrination when you force a doctrine upon children who don't know any better. How is it condonable that children are taught Creationism before evolution?

Also, your anecdotal evidence does not disprove the reality of other schools. There was not a single Muslim in my primary school of 300 children. Even then, why is Christian ethos necessary?
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Katty3
Why? Faith schools are perfectly acceptable. They can have advantages.

I was at a religious primary school and I found that perfectly fine. It meant that I had to sing hymns.

I was not disadvantaged in any way by attending a faith school.

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Imo religion should be kept out of schools (except obviously RS)

There are many schools around the country, Muslim and Jewish in particular, that are doing things like denying evolution and saying that creationism is the truth. I'm all for having your own beliefs but denying scientific proof when teaching and treating your religious story as fact..?
Original post by BaconandSauce
So no motor bike helmets then or Jewish Kippah's

Or Hats or hoodies

You've really not though this through have you.


It's raining and you don't have an umbrella? No using your hood son, you gon get soaked
Asking them to be removed for security checks is perfectly reasonable.
Original post by Kiytt
You're being spoonfed the belief that a God exists as if it were fact, before you even possess an ounce of scientific knowledge, or the ability to come to your own conclusions from your own judgements. It is indoctrination when you force a doctrine upon children who don't know any better. How is it condonable that children are taught Creationism before evolution?

Also, your anecdotal evidence does not disprove the reality of other schools. There was not a single Muslim in my primary school of 300 children. Even then, why is Christian ethos necessary?


I believe that God does exist. We had a vicar attached to the school from the local church. He provided a lot of pastoral care. He didn't just preach.

A Christian ethos can provide an alternative outlook on the world.

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Reply 170
Original post by Katty3
I believe that God does exist. We had a vicar attached to the school from the local church. He provided a lot of pastoral care. He didn't just preach.


And you believe that because you were indoctrinated. Are you genuinely going to refute that there is a correlation between type of school attended as a child and religion followed
later in life, whilst being living proof that such a relationship exists?

Original post by Katty3
A Christian ethos can provide an alternative outlook on the world.


It can provide a deluded outlook, that's for sure.
Original post by Kiytt
And you believe that because you were indoctrinated. Are you genuinely going to refute that there is a correlation between type of school attended as a child and religion followed
later in life, whilst being living proof that such a relationship exists?



It can provide a deluded outlook, that's for sure.


I was not indoctrinated. I have independence of thought. I am intelligent. I look critically at the world and I decided that I would follow the Christian faith.

I have never regretted that decision. That decision has provided me with a great amount of comfort and support.

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Reply 172
Original post by Katty3
I was not indoctrinated. I have independence of thought. I am intelligent. I look critically at the world and I decided that I would follow the Christian faith.

I have never regretted that decision. That decision has provided me with a great amount of comfort and support.

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This isn't my attempt to persuade you. Don't feel the need to reaffirm your position to me; I'm already aware that you are beyond the point of salvaging, as every other indoctrinated individual is.
Original post by Kiytt
And you believe that because you were indoctrinated. Are you genuinely going to refute that there is a correlation between type of school attended as a child and religion followed
later in life, whilst being living proof that such a relationship exists?

It can provide a deluded outlook, that's for sure.


I think your tone is incredibly condescending and patronizing and your incredulity that someone might be so inclined to follow a faith or maintain a belief, even after evaluating and engaging in rational thought has put your own thought process in denial.
Original post by Kiytt
This isn't my attempt to persuade you. Don't feel the need to reaffirm your position to me; I'm already aware that you are beyond the point of salvaging, as every other indoctrinated individual is.


I am not indoctrinated. I follow a religious faith. You are so incredibly patronising it's unbelievable.

Do you not think that maybe, just maybe, an intelligent person can believe something that is different to what you believe.

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Reply 175
Face veil should be allowed I don't see anything wrong with it
Reply 176
but listen yeah
not tryna sound rude or anything because I'm Muslim myself
but it's a safety issue man!
i've seen it myself teachers handing children out to any old lady (or could even be a man!!) in a burka because they don't know who the child's parents are
if i was them I'd be like "show me your face before i give you the child"
it's dangerous.... i'm all for freedom of expression of religion but when there's safety issues they take priority
Reply 177
Original post by Katty3
I am not indoctrinated. I follow a religious faith. You are so incredibly patronising it's unbelievable.

Do you not think that maybe, just maybe, an intelligent person can believe something that is different to what you believe.

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If you attended a Christian school that taught religion as fact from the time you were 4 or 5 years old, or have parents that are religious, then I find it extremely difficult to believe you came to that conclusion autonomously and uninfluenced. The only reason I thought for myself was because half of my family are Atheist. Had all of my family been religious, I likely would be convicted in my religious beliefs too.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by al_94
Face veil should be allowed I don't see anything wrong with it


Oh you.
Reply 179
Original post by TheArtofProtest
I think your tone is incredibly condescending and patronizing


Thank you for sharing what you inferred of my tone from raw text. Though, your opinion adds nil to the discussion.

Original post by TheArtofProtest
and your incredulity that someone might be so inclined to follow a faith or maintain a belief

Is it honestly that difficult to understand how if someone was surrounded by people preaching their faith from an early age, then it is likely that person believes those teachings to be truths? Sorry that I find it difficult to believe that their decision to follow their faith was purely autonomous and unswayed by their peers.

Original post by TheArtofProtest
even after evaluating and engaging in rational thought has put your own thought process in denial.


What proof do you have that this individual has evaluated and engaged in rational thought? Rational thought would result in nihilism or the like. Adopting a religious view is quite literally the trade-off of logic for existential comfort.

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