British people are proud of colonialism and the British Empire, poll finds

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Original post by TheDefiniteArticle

1) being proud of something which happened before you were born is fundamentally irrational
2) the British Empire was ultimately a dreadful thing, but it's not something which needs to be apologised for either

Just as a side note, does your point 1 mean I can't be proud that John Lennon was British?

Reply 21

TheDefiniteArticle

Original post by EtherealNymph22

Just as a side note, does your point 1 mean I can't be proud that John Lennon was British?

Yes.

Reply 22

Ethereal World

Original post by TheDefiniteArticle

Yes.

But I can still listen to and appreciate his music in the same way that people who were alive when he was did.

Reply 23

moezoeboe

I am generally quite proud of the Empire of this fine nation.

Of course, they were some unsavoury actions, to say the least, but, on the whole, it was a glorious moment in this country's rich history.

Reply 24

TheDefiniteArticle

Original post by EtherealNymph22

But I can still listen to and appreciate his music in the same way that people who were alive when he was did.

Yes. Appreciation != pride though.

Reply 25

MountKimbie

Original post by TheDefiniteArticle

I repped you by accident.

Can you expand on this point? For example, I'm proud of the achievements my mother and father have obtained. Is this irrational? (Before I was born)

Reply 26

Ethereal World

Original post by TheDefiniteArticle

Yes. Appreciation != pride though.

But pride is sometimes an outcome of appreciation?

Reply 27

Dara Dahl

Original post by al_94

Wow British are racist

Are you proud of the Islamic Empires?

Reply 28

Ethereal World

Original post by MountKimbie

I repped you by accident.

Can you expand on this point? For example, I'm proud of the achievements my mother and father have obtained. Is this irrational? (Before I was born)

I love how you clarified that you repped by accident.

Reply 29

slb971

Its not as black and white as some of you are making it out to be. Yes, there were bad, disgusting things that would have been considered immoral that went on in the empire, but that doesn't take away from the more positive parts of the empire for gods sake some people just find an excuse to comment on others' moral standings.

Reply 30

MountKimbie

Original post by EtherealNymph22

I love how you clarified that you repped by accident.

I entirely agree with the point, hence the rep. I also disagree at the same. I didn't really think about it and just repped, hence the accident.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 31

TheDefiniteArticle

Original post by MountKimbie

I repped you by accident.

Can you expand on this point? For example, I'm proud of the achievements my mother and father have obtained. Is this irrational? (Before I was born)

Yes. Pride is an emotion centering around belief that one has done something for which one ought to be valued. Pride for the achievements of others therefore has no basis.

Original post by EtherealNymph22

But pride is sometimes an outcome of appreciation?

See above.

Reply 32

MountKimbie

Original post by TheDefiniteArticle

Yes. Pride is an emotion centering around belief that one has done something for which one ought to be valued. Pride for the achievements of others therefore has no basis.

See above.

That's your definition of pride though. Google says otherwise.

"feeling of deep pleasure or satisfaction derived from one's own achievements, the achievements of one's close associates, or from qualities or possessions that are widely admired"

E.g. "the faces of the children's parents glowed with pride"

Have you never used the sentence 'I'm so proud of you' or been on the receiving end of the sentence?

Reply 33

Fullofsurprises

Original post by the bear

i am proud of the Empire and am desperately sad that it has been stolen from us.

"Stole it from us"? Who stole it? We handed most of it over voluntarily.

Reply 34

moezoeboe

The Independent have produced a video outlining "five of the worst atrocities carried out by the British Empire":

1. Boer Concentration Camps (1899-1902)
- 107,000 people were detained in overcrowded camps
- Nearly 30,000 Boers died from diseases as a result of scant rations

2. Amritsar Massacre (1919)
- Up to 1000 protestors were killed in 10 minutes by soldiers

3. Partitioning of India (1947)
- Over 10 million Hindus in Pakistan and Muslims in India were forced to leave their homes
- Up to 1 million people lost their lives in sectarian killings

4. Mau Mau Uprising (1951-1960)
- Thousands of Kenyans were abused, raped and tortured by British forces during the Uprising
- Up to 100,000 died during the Uprising

5. Famines in India (1943)
- Up to 29 million Indians starved to death under the control of the British Empire

Reply 35

Fullofsurprises

Original post by moezoeboe

What are you comparing it with? For example, how would Africa have developed without European colonialism?

Reply 36

the bear

Original post by Fullofsurprises

"Stole it from us"? Who stole it? We handed most of it over voluntarily.

the ingrates bit the hand that fed them :yep:

Reply 37

Nununu

Original post by the bear

i am proud of the Empire and am desperately sad that it has been stolen from us.

Excuse me but much of the empire was stolen from the caliphate. Thats why we are getting you back now. :u:

Reply 38

moezoeboe

Original post by Fullofsurprises

What are you comparing it with? For example, how would Africa have developed without European colonialism?

I'm not comparing it with anything.

It wouldn't have (and it still really hasn't).

Reply 39

Fullofsurprises

Original post by moezoeboe

The 1943 famine was probably avoidable as well, the authorities were pretty much indifferent.

We also shouldn't forget British/English conduct in Ireland - for example, a neo-genocide following Cromwell's invasion back in the 17th Century. Cromwell was one of the early inventors of the post-medieval empire.