"You'll change you mind when you get older and enter the real world."
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Original post by Squirrel777
The left have a twisted view of how the world works. They think money grows on trees, they think international law can be changed by voting in someone like Corbyn, they think you can beat your enemies and defend yourself by taking away your weapons and negotiating (while the very enemies are laughing at how they have us in their pockets). The left believe the only thing stopping the world from embracing rainbows, fairy tales and elves is the evil corporations and illuminati.
There is a reason young people always phase out of the left. Left wing politics among younger generations was very popular in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, all up to now and a mathematician would extrapolate the numbers to give a large majority left wing government for the rest of time. Yet luckily, many realise that the world is actually not as simple as they think when they finally reach adulthood (but some are late in that stage of their development). Only the left will tell you how the world works all the while still being in school, never had a real job or just moved out of mummy and daddy's house
There is a reason young people always phase out of the left. Left wing politics among younger generations was very popular in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, all up to now and a mathematician would extrapolate the numbers to give a large majority left wing government for the rest of time. Yet luckily, many realise that the world is actually not as simple as they think when they finally reach adulthood (but some are late in that stage of their development). Only the left will tell you how the world works all the while still being in school, never had a real job or just moved out of mummy and daddy's house
You may have noticed that the broad trend over time has been for society to become more left-wing. Generally the Conservative Party get on board about two generations later when their decrepit old voters are essentially still voting for the same things they voted for when they were young, which back then seemed impossibly progressive, but 60 years down the line are seen as right-wing establishment stuff
The right have an insanely twisted view of the way the economy works: they really think government finances are the same as household finances! It's so cute.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by Squirrel777
The left have a twisted view of how the world works. They think money grows on trees, they think international law can be changed by voting in someone like Corbyn, they think you can beat your enemies and defend yourself by taking away your weapons and negotiating (while the very enemies are laughing at how they have us in their pockets). The left believe the only thing stopping the world from embracing rainbows, fairy tales and elves is the evil corporations and illuminati.
There is a reason young people always phase out of the left. Left wing politics among younger generations was very popular in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, all up to now and a mathematician would extrapolate the numbers to give a large majority left wing government for the rest of time. Yet luckily, many realise that the world is actually not as simple as they think when they finally reach adulthood (but some are late in that stage of their development). Only the left will tell you how the world works all the while still being in school, never had a real job or just moved out of mummy and daddy's house
There is a reason young people always phase out of the left. Left wing politics among younger generations was very popular in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, all up to now and a mathematician would extrapolate the numbers to give a large majority left wing government for the rest of time. Yet luckily, many realise that the world is actually not as simple as they think when they finally reach adulthood (but some are late in that stage of their development). Only the left will tell you how the world works all the while still being in school, never had a real job or just moved out of mummy and daddy's house
That's partly down to the old progressive being the modern conservative. Most conservative voters support having a national heath service for example. Back when that was brought in in the 40s even the Guardian was against it.
The paper so loathed Labour's left-wing champion Aneurin Bevan "and the hate-gospellers of his entourage" that it called for Attlee's post-war Labour government to be voted out of office.[28] The newspaper opposed the creation of the National Health Service as it feared the state provision of healthcare would "eliminate selective elimination" and lead to an increase of congenitally deformed and feckless people.[29]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guardian
Who does that sound like on here?
Now the Guardian is endless going on about the evil Tories destroying our health service, as apposed to harping on about how the NHS is undermining the horrible eugenics liberals were obsessed with back then. Most people would not look kindly to someone expressing those kinds of views now. That's what progress looks like. It also works both ways. Society needs young people to counteract the dead weight of old people resistant to change. It kind of balances it out a bit, which is probably a good thing. Less extremes. That is what conservative with small c actually means. It doesn't mean no change. Just no radical upheaval all of a sudden.
Original post by scrotgrot
The right have an insanely twisted view of the way the economy works: they really think government finances are the same as household finances! It's so cute.
The right have an insanely twisted view of the way the economy works: they really think government finances are the same as household finances! It's so cute.
I doubt Osborne thinks that. He just knows it makes for good propaganda.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by illegaltobepoor
Basically Government policy is always put into the state schooling system and teachers will do the will of the ruling majority of the Government in fear of loosing their jobs.
You have the luxury of growing up while there still being a Labour Government to regulate the tone & agenda in school, When I was growing up I had to deal with the Conservative status quo. This was though the 80s and 90s. The whole school agenda was all about punishing any weakness a person had and all the school bullies picked up on this. If you where disabled, a minority or from a poor background you would literally be singled out in 1 way or another.
Now the new generation who started secondary school from about 2008 and forward are having the values of the Conservative party instilled in them and there is no surprise why they are eager to judge a disabled person as someone of lower worth and a burden to the state.
Watch this video. Your see exactly what I am talking about.
Go to the 4:05 min mark.
================================ ===================
[video="youtube;l14WDZCnz-w"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l14WDZCnz-w[/video]
You have the luxury of growing up while there still being a Labour Government to regulate the tone & agenda in school, When I was growing up I had to deal with the Conservative status quo. This was though the 80s and 90s. The whole school agenda was all about punishing any weakness a person had and all the school bullies picked up on this. If you where disabled, a minority or from a poor background you would literally be singled out in 1 way or another.
Now the new generation who started secondary school from about 2008 and forward are having the values of the Conservative party instilled in them and there is no surprise why they are eager to judge a disabled person as someone of lower worth and a burden to the state.
Watch this video. Your see exactly what I am talking about.
Go to the 4:05 min mark.
================================ ===================
[video="youtube;l14WDZCnz-w"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l14WDZCnz-w[/video]
Exactly this
Original post by ByEeek
Oh - the irony from someone who has just come through 15+ years of state funded education paid for by taxes! 
Well, I would give the state vast sums to make up for it except I don't have vast sums, only just enough to live. All my mates are in the same position.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Hmm, I wouldn't say 'decidedly'. But as I learn more about economics and the world it certainly seems to confirm my views.
It's a trend but by no means a rule. From my observation some of it depends on where you end up after uni. Some remain in echo chambers where everyone else has leanings towards more left wing tendencies. Certain media groups, academia, the NHS, Brighton......
I think when it comes down it - generally - you become more pragmatic and less idealistic as you have more responsibilities and you have experience of fending for yourself. Depending on what sort of career you get into, perhaps you can observe first-hand and actually experience what works for business, why certain things are important that you didn't pick up on before....there are all kinds of things. Generally though I'd say a lot of it is having your eyes opened to things as you - often for the first time in your life - have to be self-sufficient
Still OP, maybe you'll have a different world view in ten years....but maybe you won't. My brother for example is probably more left wing now than he ever was. But I suppose his industry is like that, which goes to what I was saying before. If you want to purposely preverse your world view, I'd recommend either an academic career or going straight into politics. If you want to be rapidly right-wing then join the police
I think when it comes down it - generally - you become more pragmatic and less idealistic as you have more responsibilities and you have experience of fending for yourself. Depending on what sort of career you get into, perhaps you can observe first-hand and actually experience what works for business, why certain things are important that you didn't pick up on before....there are all kinds of things. Generally though I'd say a lot of it is having your eyes opened to things as you - often for the first time in your life - have to be self-sufficient
Still OP, maybe you'll have a different world view in ten years....but maybe you won't. My brother for example is probably more left wing now than he ever was. But I suppose his industry is like that, which goes to what I was saying before. If you want to purposely preverse your world view, I'd recommend either an academic career or going straight into politics. If you want to be rapidly right-wing then join the police
(edited 8 years ago)
I'd probably say a few who were quite relaxed over the benefits system tend to sharpen after being in the world of work. When you're getting up early, working overtime, working weekends, sometimes maybe aspects of your job aren't great, you're under pressure etc. Then at the end of it money is still tight...so when there are people who aren't working at all it's irritating, they can't work due to kids...others are able to, they can't work due to minor disabilities, others just struggle and want to get on etc.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Hippies originated in the 60s counter culture.... Any that are left will be old now.
I'm sure lots of them "sold out" as they got older. But so what? That time period enacted loads of social change for better or worse. We still hold a load of those values now. Young people being more progressive and old people being more conservative may just be a fact of life. A kind of cycle. That doesn't negate those young people or the impact they have.
Also I;m talking about age. Not profession.
I'm sure lots of them "sold out" as they got older. But so what? That time period enacted loads of social change for better or worse. We still hold a load of those values now. Young people being more progressive and old people being more conservative may just be a fact of life. A kind of cycle. That doesn't negate those young people or the impact they have.
Also I;m talking about age. Not profession.
Not at all, my cousin would certainly profess to be a hippie, and there's still a large following of those ideologies. It's irrelevant though, its just part of an example to prove a point, that people who are more concerned with business and actually making things work tend to be Conservative, whilst those with less pragmatism and a mindset that leans towards humanism will generally vote Labour. Of course you get outliers in each age demographic, but by and large it explains why younger people vote Labour, and older people vote Conservative.
This is also why we saw the 'silent voter' phenomenon which people were somehow surprised about at the last GE, younger Labour voters are prolific on social media, whereas the Conservative voters don't bother with all that, they're too busy with their jobs. Also in a tight financial situation people feel safer being led by a pragmatist than a humanist, even if they seem to lose their souls in the process
I grew up, got a job and pay tax/NI and I definitely don't appreciate the Tories more for it.
It's a load of pish and you're right to feel the way you do.
It's a load of pish and you're right to feel the way you do.
Original post by joey11223
I'd probably say a few who were quite relaxed over the benefits system tend to sharpen after being in the world of work. When you're getting up early, working overtime, working weekends, sometimes maybe aspects of your job aren't great, you're under pressure etc. Then at the end of it money is still tight...so when there are people who aren't working at all it's irritating, they can't work due to kids...others are able to, they can't work due to minor disabilities, others just struggle and want to get on etc.
Which really is down to two things;
Benefits either being too high OR
Work not paying enough
I'd say the second one is the real problem
Low wage low demand economy
The current idiots we have in government have decided to punish those who have very little money to plug the gap that is causing misery to the working class after the financial crisis. If they had any sense they would be squeezing money from large corporations that can actually pay for it
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
It's a common response to angry young people/students complaining about "the Tories" or some perceived social injustice they have all the solutions to.
"Just wait until you have a proper job ans are paying national insurance. Then you will change you tune on welfare and NHS spending etc"
It;s something I have been told many times on this forum. It has dawned on me that in most cases the people telling me are other young students and are actually younger than me! I'm your elder you jumped up little squirt!
How do they know anything about the "real world"? They are just parroting what they read in the Telegraph or preferred political commentators, or their parents and so on. Just like us derided "lefties" do with our news sources of choice. They are no better.
Who do they think they are anyway? :fuhrer:
"Just wait until you have a proper job ans are paying national insurance. Then you will change you tune on welfare and NHS spending etc"
It;s something I have been told many times on this forum. It has dawned on me that in most cases the people telling me are other young students and are actually younger than me! I'm your elder you jumped up little squirt!
How do they know anything about the "real world"? They are just parroting what they read in the Telegraph or preferred political commentators, or their parents and so on. Just like us derided "lefties" do with our news sources of choice. They are no better.
Who do they think they are anyway? :fuhrer:
Well I'm 31 and the people saying you will be likely to vastly change your views after a few years in the real world are correct.
Voting demographics don't lie.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by pol pot noodles
In 1974 the Tories polled 24 percent in the 18-24 age group. In 1997 it was 27%.
Fast forward to 2015 and that first group is getting towards 65+ which the Tories polled 47% in, and the second group is 35-44 which the Tories scored 35% in. Stereotypes exist for a reason!
Fast forward to 2015 and that first group is getting towards 65+ which the Tories polled 47% in, and the second group is 35-44 which the Tories scored 35% in. Stereotypes exist for a reason!
Basically what I just said
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by whorace
Which really is down to two things;
Benefits either being too high OR
Work not paying enough
I'd say the second one is the real problem
Low wage low demand economy
Benefits either being too high OR
Work not paying enough
I'd say the second one is the real problem
Low wage low demand economy
Low demand because of the amount of people we have imported in the last 12 years or so
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by whorace
Which really is down to two things;
Benefits either being too high OR
Work not paying enough
I'd say the second one is the real problem
Low wage low demand economy
Benefits either being too high OR
Work not paying enough
I'd say the second one is the real problem
Low wage low demand economy
I agree, I mean I've recently started a new job and although a trainee salary is always going to be less than someone qualified, it's no better than some retail wages and even when qualified it's still very low for what you're doing, you have to go several rungs up the ladder for it to be anything decent.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
How do they know anything about the "real world"? They are just parroting what they read in the Telegraph or preferred political commentators, or their parents and so on. Just like us derided "lefties" do with our news sources of choice. They are no better.
How do they know anything about the "real world"? They are just parroting what they read in the Telegraph or preferred political commentators, or their parents and so on. Just like us derided "lefties" do with our news sources of choice. They are no better.
Peoples views change as their lives and connections becomes more complicated. They see that the simplistic solutions that impressed them when young, no longer impress them. They see money wasted; they see self-serving behaviour, they see money ending up in the wrong pockets. Coupled with that, they need more money to meet their own obligations to family and others.
Often as they get really old, their views simplify again and UKIP is taking advantage of that. As people withdraw from the economy and their experiences of life narrow, they cease to see the complexity around them. They cease to filter the world through their own experience but receive it second-hand.
(edited 8 years ago)
While I'm probably going to make the transition from lower-working to middle class as I get a job etc, I don't think I'm going to lose my basic view that there needs to be a more equal society. I hope not anyway
This is all just making me hope that I never reach the age of 30. Oh God, I can already imagine myself being that type of woman. 
I'll just hole myself up in a lab and shut out the 'real world'...
I'll just hole myself up in a lab and shut out the 'real world'...
I don't think my values have changed too much but my understanding of cooperation and collaboration has. A lot of the ideas I have emotional sympathy for I simply know now are not possible within the current geopolitical and constitutional framework we live in.
It's not that there's a thin line between coming across as principled and actually being inflexible and unable to work with people you disagree with. There's no line.
It's not that there's a thin line between coming across as principled and actually being inflexible and unable to work with people you disagree with. There's no line.
I have not entered the 'real world' yet but I am a conservative so yeah
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