Rhodes must fall campaign backfires.

Really they just need to put in place someone with a spine. I had thought that that was impossible, but recently both the Chancellor and Vice-Chancellor of Oxford are on record telling students, one way or another, to grow up, so perhaps there's hope.

Any students at Birmingham University on this thread?

You institution was founded by Cecil's great mate, the political sponsor of his Jameson Raid, a rabid racist and imperialist, Joseph Chamberlain.

There is a huge clock tower on your campus named after him.

Don't you think it must fall? Isn't that clock an an affront to every African student there? Can they possibly feel safe with it looming over them as they walk by, a vivid reminder of the "white man rules" philosophy?

"Old Joe must fall!" "Old Joe must fall!"

What did they think would happen if they treated their most generous donor with such contempt?

We'll see how she fares.

The biggest job of any Head of College is to keep the money flowing in and to preserve its reputation. She seems to be failing in the first and has definitely failed in the second. The college has become a laughing stock.

Finally, politically she needs to keep the SCR on board. Hard to imagine this is going down well with most of them.

She wouldn't be the first Provost to be discreetly asked to retire.

The student is question is actually called Ntokozo Qwabe.

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It isn't true that it's become a laughing stock. The campaign to remove Rhodes' statue has a valid analysis behind it.

The right wing media treatment of it as a laughing stock is motivated by racist attitudes and the fake celebration of Britain's colonialist past as a triumph when in fact it was exploitative, grim and unintelligent.

I think there's hope.

This is an almost complete defeat for the "Rhodes Must Fall" campaign. The statue stays but equally importantly the plaque honouring him (I think next to his old room?) on the college building opposite also remains it having previously been announced that it would be taken down.

If the Provost is kicked out the victory will be total and complete.

Current students think that the university belongs to them. That they are somehow special. It doesn't, and they aren't. Oxford was around long before they went up, and will still be around long after they leave.

The Rhodes campaign failed the moment it started in the UK because they never took into account the laws of listed buildings.

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I really don't think that's the point - there are always laws and by-laws regarding changes in this country - the campaign was making a point, but the reality tends to be a different matter. I don't think the campaign has failed so far, as it has now also exposed the racist attitudes of at least one major Oxford potential donor and also of much of the British media, which clearly still fantasises (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary) that the Empire was a sunny period of joy and prosperity for all those this country colonised and that Rhodes was a cross between a social worker, humanitarian and philosopher.

The right wing media treatment of it as a laughing stock is motivated by racist attitudes and the fake celebration of Britain's colonialist past as a triumph when in fact it was exploitative, grim and unintelligent.

Listening to this kind of triumphalism is starting to make me change my mind and advocate removing the statue and breaking it into little pieces.

Listening to this kind of triumphalism is starting to make me change my mind and advocate removing the statue and breaking it into little pieces.

It wouldn't be the first time emotion got the better of you during this discussion, Surprises.

I saw that you were advocating the college "naming and shaming" a potential £100 million benefactor who had threatened to withdraw it.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous suggestions I have ever read on TSR, although smashing a statue to little pieces because you are annoyed that a campaign to save it had succeeded must follow a close second...

the Empire was a sunny period of joy and prosperity for all those this country colonised and that Rhodes was a cross between a social worker, humanitarian and philosopher.

The irony is that the African leaders of this campaign against him are themselves beneficiaries of his personal legacy. And I am not talking about one Rhodes Scholar but the entire elite there.

UCT is arguably the best university in Africa, and educates South Africa's brightest and best. The reason there was a statue of him for the current students to cover in sh@t, is because the beautiful campus there wouldn't exist, but for his bequest.

The irony is that the African leaders of this campaign against him are themselves beneficiaries of his personal legacy. And I am not talking about one Rhodes Scholar but the entire elite there.

UCT is arguably the best university in Africa, and educates South Africa's brightest and best. The reason there was a statue of him for the current students to cover in sh@t, is because the beautiful campus there wouldn't exist, but for his bequest.

Funny how they despise the man but love his money.

Funny how they despise the man but love his money.

So the money from rich individuals or organizations is all that mattered and trumped any kind of debate or the will of normal people/students. You are celebrating that? What a crap lefty...

I have no idea who this Cecil dude was, and I;m not fond of all this lets ban everything from students stuff. But come one.

How on earth s this a victory?



Well I think Churchill was colossal dick head to be honest. But he makes a good deity in the role this country played in fighting fascism I guess. Also didn't Obama get rid of statue of the guy due to his families history and colonialism? "the students are free to go somewhere else" You sound like a right wing libertarian or Tory.

The flip side of that is that money allows something stupid to happen as well.



Having just read that article a statue of him was removed in South Africa. I think in that case it is fair enough. We were essentially conquerors then and it wasn't that long ago. We are unique in that we have not been occupied/colonized by a greater power in recent history. It's really easy telling people to just get on with the future from that position. Imagine if the Germans had erected some statues of their leaders when they occupied France and France had to keep them lol.



Despite my awful grammar and spelling

Me too. Although I wouldn't really call it hard left. I dunno what it is but it is whatever the Guardian like to talk about. Spend more time banning statues than tacking class inequality and so on.I don;t necessarily think that is bad, I'm a bit indifferent to it. Plus I like freedom of speech so stop banning people from talking ffs. That whole post was just me being contrarian and playing devils advocate.