Why are more and more people going to University if graduate unemployment is high?
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Original post by Honey126
Why are more and more people going to university, even though graduate unemployment is very high and student fees have risen? I understand for Medicine, but for pretty much every other degree, such as Psychology, Philosophy History etc. When there just are barely any jobs for the graduates
How about starting by looking at courses where there are jobs?
Just look at how many fundraising jobs there are, and yes the profession is going through a rough time, because a few fundraisers have acted without thought or respect. But there are tens of thousands who work with great passion and integrity and attract the resources that charities need to make this a better place.
What the sector needs is more skilled, able, and thoughtful fundraisers, and that's what we are trying to help our students be. At Chichester we deliver the only undergraduate degree in fundraising, and our students are a fantastic group of people of whom I am very proud.
If being part of the charity community and seeing the difference you can make in the world inspires you, then this degree offers so much more than a job. I'm always happy to meet up for coffee, answer questions and show you round the campus.
Original post by Princepieman
This is wrong mate.
People in Silicon Valley (at the same career stage as a 'specialist' in Medicine) will be on the same if not more compensation. Average salaries for graduate (as in just finished uni) Software Engineers in SV are ~$100-120k (+ stock grants + bonuses; it's not unheard of to see grads pulling $150-170k all-in).
Work for a few years and that accelerates (especially the stock portion) drastically.
Posted from TSR Mobile
People in Silicon Valley (at the same career stage as a 'specialist' in Medicine) will be on the same if not more compensation. Average salaries for graduate (as in just finished uni) Software Engineers in SV are ~$100-120k (+ stock grants + bonuses; it's not unheard of to see grads pulling $150-170k all-in).
Work for a few years and that accelerates (especially the stock portion) drastically.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I have to disagree with you, whilst grad salaries can indeed start at 100k~ in Silicon Valley, this along with SF is pretty much the cream of the crop in Tech jobs. Also the high end is around 150-200k for project managers in Silicon Valley (averages). I'm sure there are a select few places that play more but that's generally the high salaries and this is in arguably the best place in the world do work in that field.
The pure average base salary of a specialist doctor is around $300k USD across the whole of the US, you get money from pharmaceutical companies and bonuses on top of this. Software is an extremely large market but pharmaceuticals is even bigger. The whole world software industry is still smaller than the US pharmaceutical market.
I mean if you want to get down into the extremes at the top end of the specialists are neurosurgeons which probably hit on average just slightly below the 1 million mark (at least $600,000) and some of the best surgeons earn that in a month. I've seen plenty of poor tech guys but never a poor doctor in the US, again both are good jobs though.
Even in probably the best software market (banking finance), salaries/bonuses are good but not that much. It's not yet looked at on the same level as a doctor.
Original post by Honey126
Why are more and more people going to university, even though graduate unemployment is very high and student fees have risen? I understand for Medicine, but for pretty much every other degree, such as Psychology, Philosophy History etc. When there just are barely any jobs for the graduates
As a psychology graduate I can walk into a 50 pound an hour job ......
Posted from TSR Mobile
Right let me firstly clear this up before everyone attacks me. If you want to be a nurse or a doctor, you need to go to uni as you don't have an option. If you are truly talented in a field like engineering & science, its also worth going.
The old way before (what feels like) 99% go, was much better. I believe Uni should only be for the most academic and talented. (And before anyone asks I am not academic). I have said time and time again, the more you send; the less important
degrees become. Also the amount of people I know just seem to go to drink is unbelievable. Schools also pretty much ram it down people about going to uni like its just the done thing now.
It all just looks good on government figures as it keeps the unemployment figures down.
Of course I want people like doctors, scientists to go to uni! That's how it was before Tony Blair decided to send any old idiot. Most jobs shouldn't require uni education but because employers have so much choice, they go for them as so many people go uni these days.
I now run my own business, Uni does not provide communication & real-life adult skills. I would rather train someone more humble and who wants to work there way up, rather thinking they can start earning 50 thousand + just because they went to "Uni". I'm not saying that's everyone however I find often this is the case.
The old way before (what feels like) 99% go, was much better. I believe Uni should only be for the most academic and talented. (And before anyone asks I am not academic). I have said time and time again, the more you send; the less important
degrees become. Also the amount of people I know just seem to go to drink is unbelievable. Schools also pretty much ram it down people about going to uni like its just the done thing now.
It all just looks good on government figures as it keeps the unemployment figures down.
Of course I want people like doctors, scientists to go to uni! That's how it was before Tony Blair decided to send any old idiot. Most jobs shouldn't require uni education but because employers have so much choice, they go for them as so many people go uni these days.
I now run my own business, Uni does not provide communication & real-life adult skills. I would rather train someone more humble and who wants to work there way up, rather thinking they can start earning 50 thousand + just because they went to "Uni". I'm not saying that's everyone however I find often this is the case.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by paul514
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that mate!
The amount of unemployed psychology ive seen is not even funny. Youd need at least a masters and most likely a phd in psychology to break bank
Original post by BlackSweetness
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that mate!
The amount of unemployed psychology ive seen is not even funny. Youd need at least a masters and most likely a phd in psychology to break bank
The amount of unemployed psychology ive seen is not even funny. Youd need at least a masters and most likely a phd in psychology to break bank
Completely agree with @BlackSweetness I don't know how you can just walk into a £50 per hour job straight away. Otherwise I think we would all be doing it.
Psychology graduate has one of the worst rates of getting a job at the end.
Original post by ben.anderson
Right let me firstly clear this up before everyone attacks me. If you want to be a nurse or a doctor, you need to go to uni as you don't have an option. If you are truly talented in a field like engineering & science, its also worth going.
The old way before (what feels like) 99% go, was much better. I believe Uni should only be for the most academic and talented. (And before anyone asks I am not academic). I have said time and time again, the more you send; the less important
degrees become. Also the amount of people I know just seem to go to drink is unbelievable. Schools also pretty much ram it down people about going to uni like its just the done thing now.
It all just looks good on government figures as it keeps the unemployment figures down.
Of course I want people like doctors, scientists to go to uni! That's how it was before Tony Blair decided to send any old idiot. Most jobs shouldn't require uni education but because employers have so much choice, they go for them as so many people go uni these days.
I now run my own business, Uni does not provide communication & real-life adult skills. I would rather train someone more humble and who wants to work there way up, rather thinking they can start earning 50 thousand + just because they went to "Uni". I'm not saying that's everyone however I find often this is the case.
The old way before (what feels like) 99% go, was much better. I believe Uni should only be for the most academic and talented. (And before anyone asks I am not academic). I have said time and time again, the more you send; the less important
degrees become. Also the amount of people I know just seem to go to drink is unbelievable. Schools also pretty much ram it down people about going to uni like its just the done thing now.
It all just looks good on government figures as it keeps the unemployment figures down.
Of course I want people like doctors, scientists to go to uni! That's how it was before Tony Blair decided to send any old idiot. Most jobs shouldn't require uni education but because employers have so much choice, they go for them as so many people go uni these days.
I now run my own business, Uni does not provide communication & real-life adult skills. I would rather train someone more humble and who wants to work there way up, rather thinking they can start earning 50 thousand + just because they went to "Uni". I'm not saying that's everyone however I find often this is the case.
Looks like nobody from a Uni has tried to argue with me on this statement. Truth hurts.
Original post by ben.anderson
Completely agree with @BlackSweetness I don't know how you can just walk into a £50 per hour job straight away. Otherwise I think we would all be doing it.
Psychology graduate has one of the worst rates of getting a job at the end.
Psychology graduate has one of the worst rates of getting a job at the end.
Trust me, even STEM jobs arent as lucrative as people say they are, never mind a Social Science.
Original post by ben.anderson
Looks like nobody from a Uni has tried to argue with me on this statement. Truth hurts.
There's no point in arguing with a subjective rant full of anecdote.
There's plenty of evidence earlier in the thread that you're in the minority in your opinions of graduates. If you can't be arsed to read through the thread then I'm not surprised that noone can be arsed bickering with you.
Original post by PQ
"The National Employer Skills Survey (NESS) 2007 reported that in Englandover a quarter of establishments (27%) consider that new labour market entrants at 16were poorly prepared for work, 21% that 17 to 18 year old new labour market entrantswere poorly prepared and 10% that HE graduates were (LSC, 2008).
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/299453/ER1_Skills_for_the_workplace_-_Nov_2008.pdf
Just 10% of employers this HE graduates are poorly prepared for work...based on TSR threads you'd think it was 75-90%.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/299453/ER1_Skills_for_the_workplace_-_Nov_2008.pdf
Just 10% of employers this HE graduates are poorly prepared for work...based on TSR threads you'd think it was 75-90%.
(edited 8 years ago)
I'm not jealous because I didn't go. If you want to know my personal status, no I couldn't of gone to uni because I was useless at school! But the fact is If I was just to retake maths and scrape a C, I could of gone! Surely Uni should be for the most academic, otherwise most will go. Remember a degree shouldn't be a GCSE, it should mean something very special.
Your better off working your way up as a junior in your job these days. If I was having the some conversation maybe 6 or 7 years ago, I would say if you can go to uni GO! The facts are to many people go, which makes jobs which don't need degrees; need one. Let me clear up I have never said Uni is completely pointless and no one should go. My debate is it the right way to teach by sticking everyone in a large lecture hall.
People like my Grandad had amazing jobs in engineering, yes technology is different now but surely he leaving school at 13 and being fantastic at hes job (who didn't require these degrees).
You can send me all these statistics, figures that government has rigged. The facts are surely the world functioned and would still before sending (what seems like) 99% of people to a Uni. I think its crazy, Tony Blair started this.
Your better off working your way up as a junior in your job these days. If I was having the some conversation maybe 6 or 7 years ago, I would say if you can go to uni GO! The facts are to many people go, which makes jobs which don't need degrees; need one. Let me clear up I have never said Uni is completely pointless and no one should go. My debate is it the right way to teach by sticking everyone in a large lecture hall.
People like my Grandad had amazing jobs in engineering, yes technology is different now but surely he leaving school at 13 and being fantastic at hes job (who didn't require these degrees).
You can send me all these statistics, figures that government has rigged. The facts are surely the world functioned and would still before sending (what seems like) 99% of people to a Uni. I think its crazy, Tony Blair started this.
Original post by Maria_1993
I graduated my Psychology degree six months ago and I now work as a research assistant...
But you have a point, I don't think there are enough jobs for the amount of people graduating. I think there is an element of being persuaded by teachers when you are at sixth form. They advocate it because obviously it is the choice they made and it worked out well for them.
And student fees aren't as bad as people make out. It is a Conservatory ploy to dissuide people from going to university (perhaps because of the reasons posted in this thread). In reality, my monthly payments to the student loans company are about the same as people who graduated the year before me when the fees were only £3375 per year.
But you have a point, I don't think there are enough jobs for the amount of people graduating. I think there is an element of being persuaded by teachers when you are at sixth form. They advocate it because obviously it is the choice they made and it worked out well for them.
And student fees aren't as bad as people make out. It is a Conservatory ploy to dissuide people from going to university (perhaps because of the reasons posted in this thread). In reality, my monthly payments to the student loans company are about the same as people who graduated the year before me when the fees were only £3375 per year.
... Just to add to my last post
Maria_1993 went to uni, and just read what she said. Teachers pretty much force it down you in sixth form. They send large amounts of people to uni, but how can there suddenly be magically jobs all appear. No I'm not saying this is the same for every trade (we all know we are desperate for people like doctors and nurses). I am saying this cant continue, its stupid.
Original post by BlackSweetness
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that mate!
The amount of unemployed psychology ive seen is not even funny. Youd need at least a masters and most likely a phd in psychology to break bank
The amount of unemployed psychology ive seen is not even funny. Youd need at least a masters and most likely a phd in psychology to break bank
Register with the bacp and start your own counselling practice that's 50 an hour......
If you want to work for someone else you will always earn crap money
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Original post by ben.anderson
... Just to add to my last post
Maria_1993 went to uni, and just read what she said. Teachers pretty much force it down you in sixth form. They send large amounts of people to uni, but how can there suddenly be magically jobs all appear. No I'm not saying this is the same for every trade (we all know we are desperate for people like doctors and nurses). I am saying this cant continue, its stupid.
Maria_1993 went to uni, and just read what she said. Teachers pretty much force it down you in sixth form. They send large amounts of people to uni, but how can there suddenly be magically jobs all appear. No I'm not saying this is the same for every trade (we all know we are desperate for people like doctors and nurses). I am saying this cant continue, its stupid.
I agree to that there is too many universities and too many places for subjects with low demand.
I think they should introduce a course covering what general employers want from a graduate if you just want a standard graduate job rather than a course specific job
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Original post by paul514
Register with the bacp and start your own counselling practice that's 50 an hour......
If you want to work for someone else you will always earn crap money
Posted from TSR Mobile
If you want to work for someone else you will always earn crap money
Posted from TSR Mobile
yeah! because everyones going to be flocking to a graduate with no prior experience for 50 an hour.
Original post by ben.anderson
the amount of people I know just seem to go to drink is unbelievable.
It's funny I'm halfway through a computer science access course and the one's who wanted to go to uni for "the experience" have all bailed.
I guess the realisation that the next 4-5 years actually involved some effort was too much for them to handle.
Original post by BlackSweetness
yeah! because everyones going to be flocking to a graduate with no prior experience for 50 an hour.
Exactly! I run my own business myself and believe me, when you start your own business it’s a nightmare getting it off the ground. I don’t think people are going to be throwing there 50 pound notes (per hour) somehow. If they will do that straight away, I must be in the wrong trade!
Original post by JamesN88
It's funny I'm halfway through a computer science access course and the one's who wanted to go to uni for "the experience" have all bailed.
I guess the realisation that the next 4-5 years actually involved some effort was too much for them to handle.
I guess the realisation that the next 4-5 years actually involved some effort was too much for them to handle.
People like my father have paid their taxes to fund a bunch of students who want to party and drink all day. Again, I am not saying that’s everyone as I understand most of you work hard and should be proud. I’m actually sticking up for genuine students who will have a massive debt and who deserve a job for their passion and hard work. I am not against uni education, I am against schools pushing it really hard and the fact they pretty much accept anyone these days. If everyone has a degree, what is it worth?
Original post by ben.anderson
People like my father have paid their taxes to fund a bunch of students who want to party and drink all day. Again, I am not saying that’s everyone as I understand most of you work hard and should be proud. I’m actually sticking up for genuine students who will have a massive debt and who deserve a job for their passion and hard work. I am not against uni education, I am against schools pushing it really hard and the fact they pretty much accept anyone these days. If everyone has a degree, what is it worth?
Participation rates for all HE courses for under 30 year olds are only just hitting 50%. The proportion of 21 year olds with full degrees is a lot lower.
If your perception is that "everyone " or "99%" have degrees then you have a very narrow and privileged social circle.
Original post by PQ
Participation rates for all HE courses for under 30 year olds are only just hitting 50%. The proportion of 21 year olds with full degrees is a lot lower.
If your perception is that "everyone " or "99%" have degrees then you have a very narrow and privileged social circle.
If your perception is that "everyone " or "99%" have degrees then you have a very narrow and privileged social circle.
Just to clear up I know nobody who is privileged! I don’t know where you got that one form. I’m from a working class background. My business started from nothing in my bedroom with about £10 in my bank account, I worked from the minute I woke up to the minute I went to bed. I didn’t need someone to tell me on a piece of paper I can do something, I just did it instead.Your making out I am attacking every single aspect at Uni. In fact I am not. Okay then if 50% of the population have a degree, surely that’s still well too high. Remember what this topic is about, it’s been proven graduate unemployment is increasing. The fact is too many people have a degree and there are not enough jobs in many trades. I’m saying stop ramming it down people in schools and give people proper alternatives like more trade schools, business schools. If you academic that’s great you have your uni’s, but some of us want to take a different path in life and receive nowhere near the support as someone going to a uni. No one gave me £30k to start by own business and then have the privilege of not bothering to pay it back if I don’t earn a certain amount. If I take out a loan and don’t pay it back, I’m sure the government won’t pay it for me somehow.
Original post by ben.anderson
Just to clear up I know nobody who is privileged! I don’t know where you got that one form. I’m from a working class background. My business started from nothing in my bedroom with about £10 in my bank account, I worked from the minute I woke up to the minute I went to bed. I didn’t need someone to tell me on a piece of paper I can do something, I just did it instead.Your making out I am attacking every single aspect at Uni. In fact I am not. Okay then if 50% of the population have a degree, surely that’s still well too high. Remember what this topic is about, it’s been proven graduate unemployment is increasing. The fact is too many people have a degree and there are not enough jobs in many trades. I’m saying stop ramming it down people in schools and give people proper alternatives like more trade schools, business schools. If you academic that’s great you have your uni’s, but some of us want to take a different path in life and receive nowhere near the support as someone going to a uni. No one gave me £30k to start by own business and then have the privilege of not bothering to pay it back if I don’t earn a certain amount. If I take out a loan and don’t pay it back, I’m sure the government won’t pay it for me somehow.
Unemployment among graduates is not increasing
"The unemployment rate of 3.9% for young graduates is the lowest Q1 rate since 2007."
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/432873/BIS-15-304_graduate_labour_market_statistics-January_to_March_2015.pdf
I don't disagree that careers advice is appalling but the move to increase HE participation was evidence based and there is no evidence that supply of graduates is exceeding demand.
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