Muslims aren't the problem, Islam is

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Heck yeah, which is why we're seeing so many English people desperately trying to get into Pakistan and Yemen and Indonesia and Somalia and Egypt. They're just desperate for some of that fiiiiiiine Islamic theocracy in those societies that work so amazingly well! Islam produces such wonderful, functional, happy nations, doesn't it? Who doesn't yearn to leave the hellhole of western Europe and move to Pakistan?

You have such a charming attitude towards women, as amply demonstrated by your cheers of approval on another thread of the three men who raped a white woman. Women with three kids and 'apparently' no father, hmmmmm. Obviously men fathering children with four wives and having sex slaves to rape is a much better idea. Yay Islam!

Edit: I see he's been banned.

He's an extremely hateful troll who has been around for the past week or so. On previous accounts he's said things like "gays are degenerates", "almost all atheists are degenerates" and on the ISOC he called the kuffar "swine", "animals" and that they should be exterminated.

Surprisingly, even members of the ISOC seemed to be offended by his words and reported his posts! There truly is a God!

Reply 181

sairaaas

Original post by Achaea

Yeah, imagine how they'd be screaming if they were told 'it's OK to be a believing Muslim, but you can't ever act on it, or you'll be killed'.

again, believing bs where in the quran does it say you can be gay jus don't act upon it loooooooooooooool u lot make me laugh if ur gay u cant be muslim full stop

Reply 182

username1595471

Original post by sairaaas

again, believing bs where in the quran does it say you can be gay jus don't act upon it loooooooooooooool u lot make me laugh if ur gay u cant be muslim full stop

Ladies and gentlemen, Islam!

Reply 183

Plantagenet Crown

Original post by sairaaas

again, believing bs where in the quran does it say you can be gay jus don't act upon it loooooooooooooool u lot make me laugh if ur gay u cant be muslim full stop

That's your opinion. Other Muslims do believe it's OK to believe in Allah and practise gay sex. In fact, there are a couple of Muslims on this site that have boyfriends and still worship Allah.

Reply 184

Butternuts96

Original post by QE2

Was that an "I can't", or an "I can't be bothered"?
Either way, not a very convincing rebuttal.

I am a professional polemicist and iconoclast.

What about you?

No, as in what do you do for a living?

I'm a med student.

Reply 185

redleader1

Original post by TheTechN1304

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

The only people Islam promotes peace towards are other Muslims. If you're a non believer, apostate or gay, Islam hates you.

Biased website look at this
http://www.religioustolerance.org/faisal01.htm

Reply 186

QE2

Original post by Butternuts96

No, as in what do you do for a living?

I'm a med student.

Really? You're a med student, yet you believe that apostates should be killed and adulterers should be stoned to death?
**** me! They'll take anyone these days.

I guess that as a fundamentalist Muslim, you don't believe in human evolution either. How does that go down with your tutors?

(And BTW, "med student", pfft! Why is it that all the teenage blowhard extremist wannabes all claim to be "med students"? Do you think that your nonsense will seem more convincing?)

Reply 187

lahorizon

Original post by QE2

I think you'll find that much of the "bashing" on the TSR religion section is "fuelled" by the contents of the Quran, sunnah and tafsir.

Much of the defence presented by Muslims appears to de fuelled by misunderstanding and propaganda.

Kinda ironic, don't ya think?

Really? I thought it was by edited and manipulative videos posted by EDL and Britain First? I don't see very many starting with an extract from the Quran? Besides there are plenty bits of the Bible which also depict violence.

What I don't understand is why we are not talking about the neo-Nazis in Russia or Eastern Europe (who are Christian)? Why are we not seeing many reports on how they are stabbing innocent people just based on their colour and participating in racist marches? Why are we just attacking the Middle East and Islam even though those Muslims who are actually terrorists are just as bad as the neo-Nazi skinheads in Russia? Please tell me why everyone is always bashing Islam for stoning gays when those in Serbia and Russia stab gays? What is the difference?

Reply 188

string56

Original post by redleader1

Biased website look at this
http://www.religioustolerance.org/faisal01.htm

Oh the irony. You yourself are guilty of surfacing an article, authored by a Muslim apologist, with a vested interested in presenting Islam in good light.

In reference to the article- Islam means 'submission', as pointed out here - https://islamqa.info/en/10446

"Islam prohibits violence and promotes peace and justice..."

Islam clearly sanctions acts of violence from permitting the stoning/flogging of those convicted of consensual adult sex, beheading blasphemers and critics, executing vocal apostates, to the numerous exhortations to violence present within Islamic scripture, not to forget the sanctioning of the violent concept of Hell.

(That's not to say there are meccan verses within the Quran advocating for peace and tolerance, but then this is contradicted by the more bellicose and violent medina verses of the Quran) depending on ones agenda, one can cherry pick to suit their subjective interpretation.

(...in this case, the Muslim apologist author seeks for a peaceful interpretation) Thus he cherry picks peaceful and harmless verses to suit his agenda, neglecting all the violent and bellicose verses with in the Quran. Finally Islam promotes 'Islamic justice', i.e. stoning adulterers, enslaving female captives of war, permitting child marriage etc, etc.

"Historical evidences favoring the peace-loving attitude Of Muslims:.."

Given the authors agenda is to promote a peaceful and tolerant interpretation of Islam. He cherry picks an isolated incident of tolerance, during the Muslim rule in Spain. Failing to mention the Muslim invasion and colonialism of formerly Christian Spain and failing to mention the discriminatory practices of Islam (that were present in) Muslim Spain i.e. Dhimmi status and Jizya/Kharaj tax. (Failing to also provide a reference)

Religious tolerance varied in Cordoba, which featured much discrimination and a pogrom. For further clarification, here's a much more impartial link- http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/spain_1.shtml

"...India is another place that was once ruled by Muslims for a period of over 1,000 years. Currently, about 80% of the population is comprised of non-Muslims. If Muslims had used force to convert people from other religions, the stats would have been quite different...Arabia..."

More fallacious reasoning. Just because India has a large non-Muslim population does not suggest that Muslims did not conduct raids into India, permitting Muslim invasions, colonialism and imperialism into India, subjecting and coercing non-muslims via discriminatory practices i.e. Dhimmi status, Jizya/Kharaj tax (The same goes for the claim concerning Copts in the middle east)

Spoiler

For further clarification see hear - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus#During_Islamic_rule_of_the_Indian_sub-continent

(Yes it's a Wikipedia article, but all points are referenced, to which you may indulge yourself in)

"Islam believes in nothing but the sword of intellect..."

He cherry picks peaceful, tolerant verses from the Quran to fit his agenda, once again neglecting all the verses pertaining to the exhortations to violence within the Quran. Moreover this tripe would contradict...

"...This is some of the evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah. The evidence clearly indicates that the sword is one of the most important means that led to the spread of Islam..."

http://islamqa.info/en/43087

You essentially posted fallacious tripe.

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 189

QE2

Original post by redleader1

Biased website look at this
http://www.religioustolerance.org/faisal01.htm

And the Senior Coordinator at quranreading.com isn't biased?

The issue of homosexuality in Islam is ambiguous in the Quran ambiguous. It mentions punishment, but nothing specific. The sunnah is very definite that those indulging in homosexuality should be killed.
Additionally, Muhammad cursed effeminate men and said to turn them out of their houses. (Bukhari)

That is no one's opinion or agenda or spin. It is simply what the Quran and hadith say.

Reply 190

QE2

Original post by lahorizon

Really? I thought it was by edited and manipulative videos posted by EDL and Britain First? I don't see very many starting with an extract from the Quran?

Well, I suggest you have a browse through the religion section of TSR (which is what I specifically referred to), and see how many posts are reasoned critique of Islam using scriptural and historical references, and how many are EDL and Britain First videos. Let me know what the count is.

On the other hand, you will find many videos from Islamic propaganda websites being posted by Muslim apologists.

Besides there are plenty bits of the Bible which also depict violence.

In the Old Testament? Absolutely! Much of it is a misogynistic, genocidal nightmare. Good job that pretty much nobody claims that it is the ultimate and perfect guide for humanity, and the literal basis of a legal system, eh?

What I don't understand is why we are not talking about the neo-Nazis in Russia or Eastern Europe (who are Christian)? Why are we not seeing many reports on how they are stabbing innocent people just based on their colour and participating in racist marches? Why are we just attacking the Middle East and Islam even though those Muslims who are actually terrorists are just as bad as the neo-Nazi skinheads in Russia? Please tell me why everyone is always bashing Islam for stoning gays when those in Serbia and Russia stab gays? What is the difference?

It's all about context.
This thread is about the nature of Islamic ideology, so Russian neo-nazis would be kinda off-topic. The point here is that Islamic ideology calls for the killing of gays. Muhammad, the perfect moral example for all mankind, said that gays were an abomination and should be executed. Therefore, discussion of the issue on this thread is on-topic.
Feel free to start a thread in the News & Current Affairs, International or Politics forums though.

Reply 191

TheTechN1304

Original post by redleader1

Biased website look at this
http://www.religioustolerance.org/faisal01.htm

I know the website is biased but the points it makes are still valid so...

Reply 192

Butternuts96

Original post by QE2

What's a fundamental muslim? Is that a normal Muslim?
I never shouted it out there that I study medicine; You're the one who asked me, lol.

Now answer my question, what is it that YOU do?

Reply 193

QE2

Original post by Butternuts96

What's a fundamental muslim? Is that a normal Muslim?

It's a Muslim who believes in what the Quran actually says, and follows the example of Muhammad.

Now answer my question, what is it that YOU do?

As little as possible. Why are you so keen to know?

Reply 194

Butternuts96

Original post by QE2

It's a Muslim who believes in what the Quran actually says, and follows the example of Muhammad.

As little as possible. Why are you so keen to know?

Yeah that's called a normal muslim.

I'm keen to know because it must be some minimal-demand, minimal-intellect job/degree that allows you such time to go on a full frontal offense against Islam on a forum designed for students.

Reply 195

username1595471

Original post by Butternuts96

Why on earth do you careso much what QE2 and a few others post here? Islam is perfect, isn't it? It'sthe perfect divine revelation of a perfect god, isn't it? It's the fastestgrowing religion in the world, isn't it? (Or so some people claim.) So why doyou care so much about a few posts on a student forum that you have to keepgoing on and on about them? They're not going to hurt Perfect Islam, are they?Perfect Islam is strong enough to cope with a few critical posts that only a handful of people will ever see, or isn't it?'A full frontal offence against Islam', ROFL. You seem incredibly insecureabout a few posts on a forum. It's pretty weird. It's almost like you're notsecure in your faith, or assume that other Muslims aren't, and want to shutpeople up before they destroy your iman. Or you assume that Islam is such aweak ideology that criticism can destroy it. Otherwise, I really can'tunderstand why you're so desperately perturbed about this forum.

Reply 196

QE2

Original post by Butternuts96

Yeah that's called a normal muslim.

How "not normal" do you consider "moderate" or "revisionist" Muslims to be?
For example, if a Muslim rejects and condemns wife beating, slavery, death for apostates and adulterers, do you consider them to be still Muslims?

I'm keen to know because it must be some minimal-demand, minimal-intellect job/degree that allows you such time to go on a full frontal offense against Islam on a forum designed for students.

You might be surprised at how little time and effort all this takes for some of us, so don't necessarily judge it on how difficult and time consuming you find it.

BTW. As you take such a keen interest in my postings, you will have no doubt noticed that the vast majority of my posts are simply replies to the comments of others, correcting mistakes, addressing misconceptions, etc.
Hardly "full frontal offense".

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 197

FCA342

Original post by Achaea

I didn't say that, dearie. Try to keep up. Now I've made my mind up about Islam, but only after I read the quran and hadiths and the vile opinions of Butternuts here and other TSR members. I know enough now to realise what a horrible ideology it is.

Can't wait to see you going onto the ISOC thread moaning about how Muslims have 'already made their minds up about Islam'

What Quran have been reading? Did you not pass along the quote: “Whoever kills a person [unjustly]…it is as though he has killed all mankind. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved all mankind.” (Qur’an, 5:32)
And this is one of many quotes that explain what you mean by the word 'barbaric' which you might need to revisit.
Now I can predict your next reply which will you be you taking a qoute from the quran with a lack of knowledge behind the science to it. It is easy to manipulate the qoute to your beneift however by only gaining a qoute without knowledge, understanding or correct intellect, you prove to me the inadequate ability to adapt to the complexities of religious debates. Now, the question remains: 'Is islam a barbaric religion?' Well, to answer this question I have to bring in the role of the media which indeed does perpetuate Islam as a barbaric religion because obviously, there's no white pedophiles who are christian, hitler wasn't white. See, this is the problem, when we look at muslims and islam we put forward their ethnicity and religion as the main reason for them comitting the crime but when we look at Jimmy savile we do not put forward his ethnicity or religion as being the main reason for him committing the crime. When we look at this type of bigotry and nonsense we should deal with the real structural reality and condemn actions of those who are the REAL problem. If Islam is the problem then 1.6 billion people of the world are, take that figure in and think, is Islam a real problem?

Reply 198

BaconandSauce

Original post by FCA342

Why have you edited this verse and posted it not in full?

Reply 199

FCA342

Original post by BaconandSauce

Why have you edited this verse and posted it not in full?

It is shortened to fit the context and for thick and close minded people like you as providing you with the whole quote would be using too much of your brain capacity which I don't feel like you have. If you wish to look up the whole quote, the chapter number and verse number are provided for you.

Thank you.