Muslims aren't the problem, Islam is

As a challenge,

Still digging

You've made up a statement that may be true but actually has little to do with the original claim that was made by the Muslim poster in that we 'are just assuming that there are more disbelievers in Islam than there are believers'

You seem blind to the qualifier 'in Islam'

But as we know straw is your favorite building material and your construction is good but so flimsy

Okay, help me clear up the confusion:

Exactly how many disbelievers in Islam are there?

Islam is not actually the problem. It does not spread hate and is actually a peaceful religion......

Are you asking me how many people in the world do not believe in Islam as per the original claim?

Wouldn't that be obviously all those who are not Muslims. (approx 3/4 of the world population)

I don't see how this can be confusing for you.

But Islam promotes hate and breeds hate so what do you say to that?

Your claim: "there are more disbelievers in Islam then there are believers in islam in fact it is about a quarter of the world who are Muslim and the rest aren't "

You've quantified it to about 3/4 of the world's population but that's the statistic for a non-believer, not a disbeliever.


Could you now quantify that out of those 3/4's who are non-believers, how many are actually disbelievers?

the 3/4 who don't believe 'In Islam'

you keep cutting the qualifier 'in Islam' so I can see why you are confused. But is a confusion of your own making (or more honestly a poor attempt to get yourself out of the hole you have dug)

The qualifier that you keep referring to is understood perfectly because what other disbelief could one be referring to, if not Islam, when we are conducting a discussion about Islam?


More likely, you have not understood what the term disbelief means, choosing to insist that it means the same as a non-belief, when it clearly doesn't and if I am mistaken on that point, then you have yet to show me how, why or when.


You have displayed a complete and utter disregard for intellectual honesty here, even going as far as to claim that you "researched" this particular disbelief when you have done nothing of the sort.

disbelief inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.

I know what it means

so the number of people who disbelieve in Islam is around 3/4 of the worlds population

If you have a counter argument then fell free to present it

So are you claiming the opposite of the OP's premise is true and it's muslims that are the problem and not Islam?

Not this again. Islam doesn't mean "peace", it means "submission", and the assertion that just because the word means a certain thing that it cannot promote violent ideals is absurd. Does Norty Korea calling itself a democracy make it one? Even more poignantly, using this reasoning you'd have to accept that ISIS is Isoamic as they claim to be Muslims following the Quran.

just so you are aware male genitalia mutilation (circumcision ) is not mentioned in the quran either - it is mentioned in hadith in the same way there is some (loose reference) to muslim women having had circumscion (Hufaad)

religions do not exist in a void : they exist as long as they are practiced by real people, in real societies, with a real culture

so, an abstract "pure Islam" does not exist. Islam exists as long and in the form as it is practiced by people. And yes, people do have a "culture".

However, a "pure Islam" has more or less been reconstructed as an abstract form : the idealised, perfect Islam of Muhammad, the sahaba, the "rightly guided" Caliphs. And it is precisely this "perfect", but warlike Islam, with its invasions and expansionist policy, the total separation between right and wrong, believers and unbelievers (heaven and hell) which is now inspiring the contemporary jihadis...

In fact, it could be said that, in particular, "Western" jihadis are rootless people : they don't have a solid "culture" which protects them anymore (many are second, -third- generation immigrants, ill at ease in both their "old" and their "new" culture), so they grab the Salafi ideology as a ready-made identity, and they try to relive the epic saga of Muhammad and the sahaba.

In any case, back to the start : you cannot effectively separate culture and religion, just like you cannot separate an ideology and the society in which it has developed

Best

You are COMPLETELY wrong there. I have studied Islamiyat for 3 years and it is a religion which promotes peace, equality, forgiveness , kindness and love. There are people who want to "destroy" Islam and its followers, they are the "false Muslims" and they are ones ruining Islam's reputation. It's upsetting to know how many people think like that. Study about it and then preach please!!!

You are COMPLETELY wrong there. I have studied Islamiyat for 3 years and it is a religion which promotes peace, equality, forgiveness , kindness and love. There are people who want to "destroy" Islam and its followers, they are the "false Muslims" and they are ones ruining Islam's reputation. It's upsetting to know how many people think like that. Study about it and then preach please!!!

I give up trying to educate you how non-belief =/= disbelief.

Can't be bothered arguing with people who are so far up in their confirmation bias that they fail to exercise even an iota of logic or rational thought process.

But if the quran says crucifying people is an acceptable punishment and ISIS crucifies someone how can this be a miss-interpretation of the quran?