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The Liverpool FC Thread XIV
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Original post by Wilfred Little
@Pimped Butterfly have you given up on Benteke yet?
Nah, he's just short of confidence right now. I don't think he'll ever truly succeed as a lone striker for us though, his movement is just not good enough.
I don't mind him missing shots, it's not helpful but it's good that he's there to miss them. It's much more grating when he's not even getting himself into the box.
Original post by Pimped Butterfly
Nah, he's just short of confidence right now. I don't think he'll ever truly succeed as a lone striker for us though, his movement is just not good enough.
I don't mind him missing shots, it's not helpful but it's good that he's there to miss them. It's much more grating when he's not even getting himself into the box.
I don't mind him missing shots, it's not helpful but it's good that he's there to miss them. It's much more grating when he's not even getting himself into the box.
Sounds about right, happened with us.
You can quote and bump thread but I reckon if he's given a run he'll smash a few in before the end of the season. Dunno if he'll get that run in the first team with you though.
I read a stat he's been 1 on 1 twelve times this season and missed them all? That can't be true.
Original post by Wilfred Little
I read a stat he's been 1 on 1 twelve times this season and missed them all? That can't be true.
I read a stat he's been 1 on 1 twelve times this season and missed them all? That can't be true.
You know what? I wouldn't be surprised. He missed three at the Stadium of Light on the night he scored alone.
Original post by Wilfred Little
Sounds about right, happened with us.
You can quote and bump thread but I reckon if he's given a run he'll smash a few in before the end of the season. Dunno if he'll get that run in the first team with you though.
I read a stat he's been 1 on 1 twelve times this season and missed them all? That can't be true.
You can quote and bump thread but I reckon if he's given a run he'll smash a few in before the end of the season. Dunno if he'll get that run in the first team with you though.
I read a stat he's been 1 on 1 twelve times this season and missed them all? That can't be true.
Nah, he did score a 1 on 1 winner against Sunderland, to name one. Must have scored more than just that too. He's had his run, now our other strikers are fit, he's going to have to earn his place in the team. In 9/10 games I'd start Origi over him, let alone Sturridge. Benteke did do better today though, like I say, I don't mind him missing chances as much as I mind him not getting on the end of them.
I do think that movement can be taught. Intelligence can't though. Players like Aubameyang and Lewandowski have turned into world class strikers under Klopp overnight almost solely through Klopp teaching them the striker's trade. Benteke has the physical and technical capabilities (question marks about his finishing I guess) but it's up for question whether he's got the speed of thought and intelligence to ever make the transformation.
Not too concerned.. would have been nice to have had a run in the FA Cup but we pushed a full strength West Ham all the way with what was basically our youth team, Benteke, and players returning from injury. In all honesty, they performed better than our full strength team did in the league.
Obviously we aren't getting 4th in the league now, so our priority has to be Europa League. I think we'll see some players rested this weekend so we can go all out against Augsburg in the first leg next week. If all goes well, we'll have a decent lead and can risk resting key players in the 2nd leg ahead of the league cup final. I'm sure Klopp has already pretty much planned out his teams from now until then so he can keep everyone in good shape but still win the cup and advance in the EL.
I thought Benteke was much better today (the missed chances are simply confidence, we know he is capable of going on a goalscoring run once he gets that back), but it is clear that to play in our team he needs a strike partner. With Firmino scoring 5 in his last 6 games playing up top, he is clearly going to be the one chosen to partner Sturridge if we go two up front atm, so I can't see Benteke getting much of a look-in for now. Although as I said, I expect some players will be rested this weekend so maybe we'll see Benteke and Origi starting together with Lallana or Teixeira in behind (and then a Coutinho/Firmino/Sturridge front 3 against Augsburg). Suddenly we have options and it feels odd.
Obviously we aren't getting 4th in the league now, so our priority has to be Europa League. I think we'll see some players rested this weekend so we can go all out against Augsburg in the first leg next week. If all goes well, we'll have a decent lead and can risk resting key players in the 2nd leg ahead of the league cup final. I'm sure Klopp has already pretty much planned out his teams from now until then so he can keep everyone in good shape but still win the cup and advance in the EL.
I thought Benteke was much better today (the missed chances are simply confidence, we know he is capable of going on a goalscoring run once he gets that back), but it is clear that to play in our team he needs a strike partner. With Firmino scoring 5 in his last 6 games playing up top, he is clearly going to be the one chosen to partner Sturridge if we go two up front atm, so I can't see Benteke getting much of a look-in for now. Although as I said, I expect some players will be rested this weekend so maybe we'll see Benteke and Origi starting together with Lallana or Teixeira in behind (and then a Coutinho/Firmino/Sturridge front 3 against Augsburg). Suddenly we have options and it feels odd.
Original post by cBay
x
Going by Klopp's interviews, he really isn't thinking ahead too much and rightly so imo. I doubt we will see the changes you are referring to this weekend. I can almost guarantee Firmino and Lallana will start this weekend and certainly not both Origi and Benteke. Basically same team as Sat but Toure instead of Lovren and one of Ibe, Sturridge, Benteke or Coutinho in for Allen.
Original post by Dante991
Sturridge was amazing, but what could he do with Origi and Benteke on the pitch so annoying + Mignolet did well today
Any game where Mignolet doesn't make a clanger is a good game for him. Worst starting goalkeeper in the league... even today he was back to his old shoddy ways wrt his kicking. He made a couple of expected saves that's it.
It wasn't 'basically our youth team', was it?
Starting keeper, starting attacking mid, starting striker, with squad RB, squad LB, squad RW, and squad DM, even if he was played at CB. With two starting strikers playing more than half the 120 minutes too.
Even Stewart is 22. Brilliant from Chirivella btw, 105 minutes against the most physical team in the league. In a game with no stand out candidates for man of the match, it could easily have gone to him (should probably have been Smith though).
Starting keeper, starting attacking mid, starting striker, with squad RB, squad LB, squad RW, and squad DM, even if he was played at CB. With two starting strikers playing more than half the 120 minutes too.
Even Stewart is 22. Brilliant from Chirivella btw, 105 minutes against the most physical team in the league. In a game with no stand out candidates for man of the match, it could easily have gone to him (should probably have been Smith though).
Original post by Pimped Butterfly
It wasn't 'basically our youth team', was it?
Starting keeper, starting attacking mid, starting striker, with squad RB, squad LB, squad RW, and squad DM, even if he was played at CB. With two starting strikers playing more than half the 120 minutes too.
Even Stewart is 22. Brilliant from Chirivella btw, 105 minutes against the most physical team in the league. In a game with no stand out candidates for man of the match, it could easily have gone to him (should probably have been Smith though).
Starting keeper, starting attacking mid, starting striker, with squad RB, squad LB, squad RW, and squad DM, even if he was played at CB. With two starting strikers playing more than half the 120 minutes too.
Even Stewart is 22. Brilliant from Chirivella btw, 105 minutes against the most physical team in the league. In a game with no stand out candidates for man of the match, it could easily have gone to him (should probably have been Smith though).
Smith was lightning down the left, I thought. In a world where Moreno is giving me increasing headaches, I wouldn't be adverse to Smith starting at Villa Park - especially because, without Gestede, they'll be looking to hit us with pace.
Stewart was excellent last night, I thought. Probably the stand-out player - other than Lucas. Chirivella was very good too, and you wonder how much it is to do with who is surrounding him.
I always thought maybe the likes of Stewart, Teixeira, Chirivella would look better surrounded by first-team players and lads who they could look to emulate, and it proved the case with the likes of Lucas, Sturridge last night.
You compare their performances last night with the performances they gave against Carlisle and Bournemouth in the cups earlier this season (both games I attended) and it was a quantum leap.
Original post by Pimped Butterfly
It wasn't 'basically our youth team', was it?
Starting keeper, starting attacking mid, starting striker, with squad RB, squad LB, squad RW, and squad DM, even if he was played at CB. With two starting strikers playing more than half the 120 minutes too.
Even Stewart is 22. Brilliant from Chirivella btw, 105 minutes against the most physical team in the league. In a game with no stand out candidates for man of the match, it could easily have gone to him (should probably have been Smith though).
Starting keeper, starting attacking mid, starting striker, with squad RB, squad LB, squad RW, and squad DM, even if he was played at CB. With two starting strikers playing more than half the 120 minutes too.
Even Stewart is 22. Brilliant from Chirivella btw, 105 minutes against the most physical team in the league. In a game with no stand out candidates for man of the match, it could easily have gone to him (should probably have been Smith though).
Not our youth side but very much an inexperienced/second string/not fully match fit due to injuries.
Mignolet - first choice
Flanagan - back up RB with plenty of experience (even if coming back after a year out)
Ilori - 6th choice CB
Lucas - back up midfield player, playing as 7th choice CB
Smith - has 8 Liverpool appearances in total
Chirivella, Stewart and Teixeira all very inexperienced too.
Benteke - first choice/expensive
Coutinho, Sturridge, Origi - all first choice but all coming back after some time out due to injury.
Lucas was MoTM for me.
Original post by Zerforax
Not our youth side but very much an inexperienced/second string/not fully match fit due to injuries.
Mignolet - first choice
Flanagan - back up RB with plenty of experience (even if coming back after a year out)
Ilori - 6th choice CB
Lucas - back up midfield player, playing as 7th choice CB
Smith - has 8 Liverpool appearances in total
Chirivella, Stewart and Teixeira all very inexperienced too.
Benteke - first choice/expensive
Coutinho, Sturridge, Origi - all first choice but all coming back after some time out due to injury.
Lucas was MoTM for me.
Mignolet - first choice
Flanagan - back up RB with plenty of experience (even if coming back after a year out)
Ilori - 6th choice CB
Lucas - back up midfield player, playing as 7th choice CB
Smith - has 8 Liverpool appearances in total
Chirivella, Stewart and Teixeira all very inexperienced too.
Benteke - first choice/expensive
Coutinho, Sturridge, Origi - all first choice but all coming back after some time out due to injury.
Lucas was MoTM for me.
Agree with this. Age shouldn't be correlated to experience. You can be aged 25 and inexperienced. Smith has started less than ten games for us, as have the midfield trio you mention. They've no experience of a side like West Ham - a side in the top half of the PL and capable of being quick, direct, physical and aggressive - because they've only been deployed against the likes of Sion, Rubin Kazan, Carlisle, Exeter.
Original post by Mackay
Agree with this. Age shouldn't be correlated to experience. You can be aged 25 and inexperienced. Smith has started less than ten games for us, as have the midfield trio you mention. They've no experience of a side like West Ham - a side in the top half of the PL and capable of being quick, direct, physical and aggressive - because they've only been deployed against the likes of Sion, Rubin Kazan, Carlisle, Exeter.
Two more games in quick succession to get through and then we have a week off when it is FA cup weekend again (between the Augsburg ties).
I didn't realise we play Man City in the League Cup final and then again in the league 4 days later.
Wonder if/how Klopp might rotate. I presume we want our best XI fully fit and rested in advance of the final? I think I'd quite like to see:
Sturridge, Firmino, Coutinho, Milner, Henderson, Can, Moreno, Clyne, plus 2 CBs + GK. Not sure if in a 4-3-3 or in a 4-2-3-1 but that could be our best lineup.
Original post by Zerforax
Sturridge, Firmino, Coutinho, Milner, Henderson, Can, Moreno, Clyne, plus 2 CBs + GK. Not sure if in a 4-3-3 or in a 4-2-3-1 but that could be our best lineup.
Sturridge, Firmino, Coutinho, Milner, Henderson, Can, Moreno, Clyne, plus 2 CBs + GK. Not sure if in a 4-3-3 or in a 4-2-3-1 but that could be our best lineup.
A lot depends on Henderson's fitness. I'd love him in the final - but I don't want to be carrying passengers, and we've seen Allen is willing to deputise, and Lucas was probably MOTM last night.
If we play Sturridge (Christ, I hope we do) we need to get Firmino as close to him, and utilise their partnership. The latter thrives in the final sixth of the pitch, and does his best work inside the penalty area, so let's allow those two to work in tandem with Coutinho and Lallana (who I'm convinced plays best with large parts of the pitch in front of him) deeper.
Original post by Mackay
A lot depends on Henderson's fitness. I'd love him in the final - but I don't want to be carrying passengers, and we've seen Allen is willing to deputise, and Lucas was probably MOTM last night.
If we play Sturridge (Christ, I hope we do) we need to get Firmino as close to him, and utilise their partnership. The latter thrives in the final sixth of the pitch, and does his best work inside the penalty area, so let's allow those two to work in tandem with Coutinho and Lallana (who I'm convinced plays best with large parts of the pitch in front of him) deeper.
If we play Sturridge (Christ, I hope we do) we need to get Firmino as close to him, and utilise their partnership. The latter thrives in the final sixth of the pitch, and does his best work inside the penalty area, so let's allow those two to work in tandem with Coutinho and Lallana (who I'm convinced plays best with large parts of the pitch in front of him) deeper.
Yea no one seems to be sure if rest will actually help or if he just needs to manage the pain. I thought Allen was injured too?
I'm not convinced about Coutinho and Lallana playing in the same time. Lallana always looks better without Coutinho in the same side imo. Think Lallana wants to be where Coutinho is too often.
Original post by Mackay
Smith was lightning down the left, I thought. In a world where Moreno is giving me increasing headaches, I wouldn't be adverse to Smith starting at Villa Park - especially because, without Gestede, they'll be looking to hit us with pace.
Stewart was excellent last night, I thought. Probably the stand-out player - other than Lucas. Chirivella was very good too, and you wonder how much it is to do with who is surrounding him.
I always thought maybe the likes of Stewart, Teixeira, Chirivella would look better surrounded by first-team players and lads who they could look to emulate, and it proved the case with the likes of Lucas, Sturridge last night.
You compare their performances last night with the performances they gave against Carlisle and Bournemouth in the cups earlier this season (both games I attended) and it was a quantum leap.
Stewart was excellent last night, I thought. Probably the stand-out player - other than Lucas. Chirivella was very good too, and you wonder how much it is to do with who is surrounding him.
I always thought maybe the likes of Stewart, Teixeira, Chirivella would look better surrounded by first-team players and lads who they could look to emulate, and it proved the case with the likes of Lucas, Sturridge last night.
You compare their performances last night with the performances they gave against Carlisle and Bournemouth in the cups earlier this season (both games I attended) and it was a quantum leap.
Smith's done enough to be our starting LB for me. He's not perfect defensively but he's going to grow into a very solid PL player, something Moreno never will be. His end product is great, and yeah, he runs a hell of a lot, at a hell of a speed.
I preferred Stewart in the last game but he was very good here too. I'm just a bit fond of Chirivella's performance because he's known to be a bit soft, and obviously he's put in a hell of a shift against some seriously physical players. Stewart was magnificent against Payet.
Original post by Zerforax
Not our youth side but very much an inexperienced/second string/not fully match fit due to injuries.
Mignolet - first choice
Flanagan - back up RB with plenty of experience (even if coming back after a year out)
Ilori - 6th choice CB
Lucas - back up midfield player, playing as 7th choice CB
Smith - has 8 Liverpool appearances in total
Chirivella, Stewart and Teixeira all very inexperienced too.
Benteke - first choice/expensive
Coutinho, Sturridge, Origi - all first choice but all coming back after some time out due to injury.
Lucas was MoTM for me.
Mignolet - first choice
Flanagan - back up RB with plenty of experience (even if coming back after a year out)
Ilori - 6th choice CB
Lucas - back up midfield player, playing as 7th choice CB
Smith - has 8 Liverpool appearances in total
Chirivella, Stewart and Teixeira all very inexperienced too.
Benteke - first choice/expensive
Coutinho, Sturridge, Origi - all first choice but all coming back after some time out due to injury.
Lucas was MoTM for me.
I don't know how your post really differs from mine? Other than noting Stewart's inexperience relative to his age.
Original post by Pimped Butterfly
Smith's done enough to be our starting LB for me. He's not perfect defensively but he's going to grow into a very solid PL player, something Moreno never will be. His end product is great, and yeah, he runs a hell of a lot, at a hell of a speed.
I preferred Stewart in the last game but he was very good here too. I'm just a bit fond of Chirivella's performance because he's known to be a bit soft, and obviously he's put in a hell of a shift against some seriously physical players. Stewart was magnificent against Payet.
I don't know how your post really differs from mine? Other than noting Stewart's inexperience relative to his age.
I preferred Stewart in the last game but he was very good here too. I'm just a bit fond of Chirivella's performance because he's known to be a bit soft, and obviously he's put in a hell of a shift against some seriously physical players. Stewart was magnificent against Payet.
I don't know how your post really differs from mine? Other than noting Stewart's inexperience relative to his age.
Dunno, your summary sounded like we played a stronger team to me
Original post by Pimped Butterfly
Smith's done enough to be our starting LB for me. He's not perfect defensively but he's going to grow into a very solid PL player, something Moreno never will be. His end product is great, and yeah, he runs a hell of a lot, at a hell of a speed.
I preferred Stewart in the last game but he was very good here too. I'm just a bit fond of Chirivella's performance because he's known to be a bit soft, and obviously he's put in a hell of a shift against some seriously physical players. Stewart was magnificent against Payet.
I preferred Stewart in the last game but he was very good here too. I'm just a bit fond of Chirivella's performance because he's known to be a bit soft, and obviously he's put in a hell of a shift against some seriously physical players. Stewart was magnificent against Payet.
Hard to remember Chirivella is only 18 years old when watching him in games like last night. He was born after Owen made his debut.
I think playing alongside Lucas - and a very cynical Lucas at that - helped both Stewart and Chirivella. It's always refreshing to see the needle Lucas plays with, because he has a canny habit of being a horrible bastard and leaving one in on players.
Ilori was quietly confident last night, too.
Hopefully we don't start throwing money at squad/youth players in the summer, we don't need it and yesterday showed that there are players ready to come on and deputise against decent PL opposition. We just really need to improve our first XI with quality.
Has anyone been keeping track on how Markovic has been doing on loan?
Has anyone been keeping track on how Markovic has been doing on loan?
Original post by samir12
Hopefully we don't start throwing money at squad/youth players in the summer, we don't need it and yesterday showed that there are players ready to come on and deputise against decent PL opposition. We just really need to improve our first XI with quality.
Has anyone been keeping track on how Markovic has been doing on loan?
Has anyone been keeping track on how Markovic has been doing on loan?
I'm sure Klopp has identified that we don't have enough star players or match winners in the side.
Really I'd only put Sturridge (always injured), Coutinho (can be hot and cold) and Firmino (still adjusting) in that bracket and none of them do it consistently enough yet.
Original post by Zerforax
I'm sure Klopp has identified that we don't have enough star players or match winners in the side.
Really I'd only put Sturridge (always injured), Coutinho (can be hot and cold) and Firmino (still adjusting) in that bracket and none of them do it consistently enough yet.
Really I'd only put Sturridge (always injured), Coutinho (can be hot and cold) and Firmino (still adjusting) in that bracket and none of them do it consistently enough yet.
You need a world class spine and then you could really just put in your youth players as squad fillers and play them when necessary. You have some cracking youth players. Liverpool should just go all out for a top CB, CM and ST. You arent buying another GK since Mignolet is your first choice
Original post by WeOnlyLiveOnce
You need a world class spine and then you could really just put in your youth players as squad fillers and play them when necessary. You have some cracking youth players. Liverpool should just go all out for a top CB, CM and ST. You arent buying another GK since Mignolet is your first choice
World class spines are over-rated. I'd settle for 3-4 world class attacking players
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