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Are the Tories deliberately trying to end the NHS?

Junior doctors (eg, all those doctors below the Consultant level) have been fighting government plans to increase their default hours and to pay them the same rate for Saturdays and late evening working.

Now Jeremy Hunt is going to impose the contract regardless of BMA attempts to negotiate.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/11/jeremy-hunt-to-impose-contract-on-junior-doctors

Hospital doctors are furious about this and it is likely they will walk out altogether, effectively collapsing NHS hospital care. This is against a background of the government demanding a further £20bn cut in spending.

This seems to be the Tory game plan. It's long been the case that the New Conservatives want to undermine the NHS - they want to give it to private healthcare companies like Richard Branson's Virgin Health to run. This appears to be part of that campaign.

Sad days ahead for what used to be one of the greatest British things, a free and fair health system. :sad:

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They won't make it an official policy to get rid of the NHS as it would be political suicide.

What they'll continue to do is undermine it so it appears to be poorly run and gives them the excuse to increase privatisation, which they'll dress up at the time as "rescuing" the service from collapse.
Original post by JamesN88
They won't make it an official policy to get rid of the NHS as it would be political suicide.

What they'll continue to do is undermine it so it appears to be poorly run and gives them the excuse to increase privatisation, which they'll dress up at the time as "rescuing" the service from collapse.


:yep: This does appear to be the plan.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
:yep: This does appear to be the plan.


What was it Bill Clinton said in that famous town hall of 1993, 'They ask us to do more and give us less to do it with'. Healthcare is something that should never be privatised because it creates a perverse incentive for the provider.

I understand the appeal to politicians though, the less the government is responsible for the less they have to do and be held accountable for.
Original post by Midlander
What was it Bill Clinton said in that famous town hall of 1993, 'They ask us to do more and give us less to do it with'. Healthcare is something that should never be privatised because it creates a perverse incentive for the provider.

I understand the appeal to politicians though, the less the government is responsible for the less they have to do and be held accountable for.


I somehow doubt that a majority of the people who gamely voted Tory at the last election realised it meant that the NHS was going to be closed for business within the first few years of the new government.
Reply 5
Avatar for lustawny
lustawny
6
I bloody well hope not. Who the **** wants to be like America at a time like this?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I somehow doubt that a majority of the people who gamely voted Tory at the last election realised it meant that the NHS was going to be closed for business within the first few years of the new government.


With all respect, what did they think was going to happen? The Tories are all about small government and allowing the free market to decide what happens, and always have been. David Cameron promises not to cut child tax credits and people believed it?
The Tories are absolute scum. The vast majority of politicians are awful but the Tories take it to a whole new level.
Original post by lustawny
I bloody well hope not. Who the **** wants to be like America at a time like this?


Our very own government.

It's wonderful to think they have our interests at heart.
Reply 9
Avatar for Asolare
Asolare
20
RIP
From Wikipedia a couple of hours ago. (Fixed now. :sad:)

The conditions are no different to what any member of the armed forces (including, I'll add, the many medics and doctors employed by the forces) faces. Is there any particular reason they aren't getting the same public support?
Original post by Drewski
The conditions are no different to what any member of the armed forces (including, I'll add, the many medics and doctors employed by the forces) faces. Is there any particular reason they aren't getting the same public support?


Members of the armed forces should be paid better - their pay is notoriously poor given the conditions they work under and the risks - but that shouldn't serve as an excuse to push back on the living standards of tens of thousands of NHS staff who play a critical role, who are chronically over-worked and over-pressured already and who have attempted to negotiate and instead had this thrust on them.

For the record, a previous negotiation was producing a settlement and Hunt personally intervened to prevent it from being completed. The Tory agenda could not be plainer - they intend to make this service unworkable and then claim that privatisation is essential due to its failure.
Reply 13
Avatar for djh2208
djh2208
4
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Sad days ahead for what used to be one of the greatest British things, a free and fair health system. :sad:


It is NOT great. We are behind most other developed nations when it comes to healthcare specifically because the NHS is not a good health system. Free healthcare is a good thing, the state having a monopoly over healthcare is completely unnecessary.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/expat-health/11384780/Netherlands-tops-health-care-rankings-with-UK-in-14th-place.html

NHS ranked 14th for healthcare, behind Germany, France, Netherlands etc.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by djh2208
It is NOT great. We are behind most other developed nations when it comes to healthcare specifically because the NHS is not a good health system. Free healthcare is a good thing, the state having a monopoly over healthcare is completely unnecessary.


That is not comparing like with like. Most other developed nations spend far more per head and relative to GDP on health than we do. The NHS is amazing for what it achieves on relatively low budgets by comparison. Also many other developed nations apply charges for services where our system does not.
Original post by Jimmy Seville
The Tories are absolute scum. The vast majority of politicians are awful but the Tories take it to a whole new level.


Yes because we want lower taxes , a better NHS , and a stable economy yes your right we are "" Scum "
Original post by Drewski
The conditions are no different to what any member of the armed forces (including, I'll add, the many medics and doctors employed by the forces) faces. Is there any particular reason they aren't getting the same public support?


Firstly, I don;t advocate a race to the bottom.

Secodnaly. I care more, as do others, about such services as health care than an army (although I do care about the people who serve in that army).

Original post by hazzer1998
Yes because we want lower taxes , a better NHS , and a stable economy yes your right we are "" Scum "


I don;t believe them and what they think makes a batter health service I completely disagree with. And they do lie with what their true intention are to the public.
(edited 8 years ago)
Original post by hazzer1998
Yes because we want lower taxes , a better NHS , and a stable economy yes your right we are "" Scum "


How exactly is systematically disabling and destroying the NHS making it better?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
The NHS is amazing for what it achieves on relatively low budgets by comparison.


That doesn't sound as praiseworthy as you probably meant it to be.
Reply 19
Avatar for Kalail
Kalail
18
I'm a labourite

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