Should junior doctors continue to strike?

Striking workers and unions have a variety of legal protections that allow them to persist in acting as an oligopoly in the labour market.

Donyou believe you should be able to use your labour as a tool for negotiating better working conditions?

The thing is the new contract itself is dangerous to patients as doctors will never get any rest.

Please introduce me to any NHS Doctor who only works Monday-Friday 9-5. I think you'll find it quite an impossible task.
Doctors already do work on a rota, one that involves long days, evenings, weekends and nights.

Are you claiming doctors don't work outside of 9-5pm?

They don't work 9-5.

Supermarket staff should be paid more for working unsociable hours. Why do you want a race to the bottom? Maybe supermarket staff should unionist and strike so they can be paid more for working weekends etc,.

It's a fair enough point, but as stated, the net result will be that everyone will just want weekends off, so they'll have to rotate, the current system in place rewards the people who work the awful hours. It will also target specialties such as ED which already have shortages, and encourage over-application for "nicer" specialties with less anti-social hours. Although I follow the logic, it won't address IMO the problems.

Good point, to be fair there are many issues with the NHS posing a risk to patients at the moment - not good s:

I take you're only ill on week days then?

I'm saying it's inherent that doctors will need to work outside of 9-5pm and therefore pay should be more equal across the board (i.e. Saturday day time should not attract a high premium that the BMA are demanding.

Supermarket staff are in the unlucky position that they know they can be replaced and therefore can't strike to get whatever they demand. It's the only reason the junior doctors are able to carry on like this. Most of the private sector have had to deal with crap hands dealt by employees.



Imo once the mentality shifts, the problem will reduce over time. So long as Saturday daytime is classed as anti-social hours, it will always be a sticking point. Once it becomes the norm that it is seen as normal working hours, it won't be seen as such a big issue in say 20 years time.

@scrotgrot @Quantex I don't see what the problem is. The simple solution is to continue recruiting doctors from Romania, Bulgaria and elsewhere. They need the money and they're willing to work longer hours without complaining. Whether they What is important to Hunt and the largely clueless public is that when we enter the hospitals, we must be able to see people walking around with stethoscopes hung around their necks. That is all.

@Zerforax I don't think you understand. The BBC is part of 'the state'. It churns out the Tory party line. BBC's local news is heavily skewed towards the current government.



Was this one of the 'many issues with the NHS posing a risk to patients'?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/01/the-curious-case-of-meirion-thomas/
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/04/dismissed-nhs-whistleblower-who-exposed-safety-concerns-handed-122m
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/11/nhs-whistleblowers-the-staff-who-raised-the-alarm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10806658/NHS-faces-20m-bill-for-sacked-doctor-Raj-Mattu.html

[video="youtube;gmiix6PO0i0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmiix6PO0i0[/video]

I'm saying it's inherent that doctors will need to work outside of 9-5pm and therefore pay should be more equal across the board (i.e. Saturday day time should not attract a high premium that the BMA are demanding.

Supermarket staff are in the unlucky position that they know they can be replaced and therefore can't strike to get whatever they demand. It's the only reason the junior doctors are able to carry on like this. Most of the private sector have had to deal with crap hands dealt by employees.



Imo once the mentality shifts, the problem will reduce over time. So long as Saturday daytime is classed as anti-social hours, it will always be a sticking point. Once it becomes the norm that it is seen as normal working hours, it won't be seen as such a big issue in say 20 years time.

Could you give some background/links to the NHSE and the BMA? I honestly don't know anything about it.

Well personally it feels like junior doctors are trying to hide behind safeguards but really only care about their money.

Society has moved on (with technology, transport etc) where everything is always available. MPs don't really work since they all need to be together to debate issues.

Doctors, on an individual level, (I do note they need other support from staff and equipment etc) don't need each other to do their job. Patients and illness do not work 9-5pm. There are plenty of other jobs who have shifted outside of 9-5pm schedules:

- supermarket staff can be made to work 24 hours all week (except Sunday evening/night)
- customer support staff have been pushed into working Saturdays
- retail staff at shopping centres have been pushed into working later evenings and Saturdays
- restaurant/bar staff work late on Friday and Saturdays

So it's fine for those people to lose time with their families because they have no choice or can't afford not to work those unsocial hours but it's unfair for junior doctors to work on a rota?

Antisocial hours make up 30-40% of pay currently. Getting rid of 30-40% and replacing it with an 11% 'rise' is a significant net pay cut. Say what you like, but if you think any kind of pay boost is happening, your facts are so far out I don't know what to say. Pay is going down under the new contract.

So ****ing what. The priority should be patients not their pay packet. So many others work anti social hours, and they don't moan.

Glad it's been implemented, if they don't like it the ******** doctors will leave, and we'll have those that are there for the job, we'll bring in more worthy doctors from abroad who'll be so much more appreciative

So ****ing what. The priority should be patients not their pay packet. So many others work anti social hours, and they don't moan.

Glad it's been implemented, if they don't like it the ******** doctors will leave, and we'll have those that are there for the job, we'll bring in more worthy doctors from abroad who'll be so much more appreciative

So ****ing what. The priority should be patients not their pay packet. So many others work anti social hours, and they don't moan.

Glad it's been implemented, if they don't like it the ******** doctors will leave, and we'll have those that are there for the job, we'll bring in more worthy doctors from abroad who'll be so much more appreciative

Government needs to drop the 24/7 NHS BS, stop dictating, and focus on what's healthy (from public health and economic perspectives) all round

No.
Plenty of other folk work weekends. what makes them special?

Of course, people are only allowed to get sick 9-5. Great idea

****, have I been going to work on weekends by accident this entire time? Whoops!



Do you really want to have a toenail operation at 2am on a Sunday morning? Keep in mind that A&E has ambulances backed up and I'm having to see patients in corridors because the hospital is in a state of MINUS beds. Is this REALLY what you want in a health service? I'm sure you've got better things to be doing, and I certainly have better things to be doing on a sunday night, ya know like, providing emergency care.

Does not compute (see existing services for reference)

I'd rather that than be placed on a waiting list for three months and then be told that I "don't qualify" for NHS treatment.